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ZTM Data
http://classictw.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17180		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  markr [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hello,

I know I have been only playing the game for a few weeks but why on new games is the ZTM data not published. It seems strange that something the sysop of the game could do once for everyone (I am asumming everyone performs a ZTM). It is left for each User / Corp to perform there own ZTM. With a 20k sector this can take about 4 hours and if a few people are performing a ztm at the same time could put a strain on the server.

Thanks Mark.
Author:  Promethius [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by markr

Hello,

I know I have been only playing the game for a few weeks but why on new games is the ZTM data not published. It seems strange that something the sysop of the game could do once for everyone (I am asumming everyone performs a ZTM). It is left for each User / Corp to perform there own ZTM. With a 20k sector this can take about 4 hours and if a few people are performing a ztm at the same time could put a strain on the server.

Thanks Mark.


Look at it as cashing at the start of the game. The sysOp could start you out with 500M and then everyone would have the best ships w/o having to cash. ZTMs are just another part of the game and are usually done in turn games when you've exhausted your turns. In an unlimited, it is usually ran when you are done for the day and off doing something else.

Yes, having one at the start of the game would help you decide where your base might go, but it also gets the hunters out that much faster. If you ever played with/against Jhereg, you would know that giving him a full ZTM at the start would almost guarantee that every dead end would have been eprobed. As soon as you closed off a dead end, you would probably see someone's "powering up" and then:
==-- Trade Wars 2002 --==

T - Play Trade Wars 2002
I - Introduction & Help
S - View Game Settings
H - High scores
X - Exit

Enter your choice:


I am hoping that you are not sitting there watching the course plots go by. ;)
Author:  Baited [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Having a full ztm can be very deadly at the begining of the game. Giving hunters a complete map will just make their jobs easier, and making the ppters run very scared, as chances are they will be dead before they get a chance to do anything. Very bad idea....
Author:  Vulcan [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:03 am ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by Baited

Having a full ztm can be very deadly at the begining of the game. Giving hunters a complete map will just make their jobs easier, and making the ppters run very scared, as chances are they will be dead before they get a chance to do anything. Very bad idea....


Hence why most sysops don't post that data to players. This way all start off with the same thing, nothing, they have to gather everything they need themselves, and thus prove how good they really are, and what talents different players on a corp has.
Author:  LoCuTiS [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:22 am ]
Post subject: 
well i dont see any harm in it if its a truce game.. the smartest person will get the best base, no big deal there
Author:  Singularity [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Gotta have cash to hunt, 30 figs isn't going to kill anyone. Most early-game
hunting tricks don't even require a full ztm anyway. If the only argument
for not having a ztm is builder vs hunter, then there really isn't one at
all. I can CIM hunt you with or without a ztm. I can follow fig chains with
or w/o a ztm. And if you're building in a dead end w/ people like Jhe in
the game then map or no... you're still going to die. Just as easy as you
can DE hunt, I can find a better cluster of sectors to build in.

Why aren't warpspecs provided? I think the burden is on the player... why
provide it when the players can make it themselves? A warp spec provided
by the sysop would be 100% accurate. With a ztm you have to put up with
some small degree of error (based on the method), some time investment,
some work to distribute the map to your corpies, etc. That seems like a
reasonable thing to expect from players in exchange for the layout of the
entire universe. To me, atleast.

Of course sysops are free to do what they will. If you're a sysop that
wants to provide a warpspec then you can do this. The great thing about
all of the above is that it's at the sysop's discretion, you don't have
to do what everyone else thinks you should. There is no real "reason"
why it's done the way it is, it just is done that way and everyone has
kindof gone along w/ it out of convenience and expectation. Personally
I think it could be fun to have a public warpspec on the first day...
might change play in a cool way.
Author:  ElderProphet [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bah, what's the point of having a new galaxy to explore if you already have it fully mapped? It's the unexplored, unmapped, undisturbed, new-car-smell intrigue that I enjoy after each bang. Next you'll want the sysops to provide the locations of the Class 0's, then the location of any gold bubbles, then full port reports, complete with MCIC values.

Consider what you find appealing about joining a new game or a fresh bang. Uncovering the mysteries of an unmapped universe is part of it for me.

+EP+
Author:  severian [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bottom line is every player is gonna view this differantly. But, if I get the jist of your original post, the yes a sysop posting a TZM would save a potential drain on the connection/hardware, but many sysops who may be affected by this problem have spent money to offset the potential.

Over some time I have seen some do, some post a ZTM for certain games, and others post no ZTM. Bottom line is (as was previously mentioned...) Let the sysop decide (his equipment) and players will either play there or not...
Author:  Promethius [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Markr - now you are seeing one of the great things about this game. The players all have opinions/methods for playing that differ in many areas. Each game differs not only because of the edits in use, but because of the player makeup. Kinda like EP said, off into the unkknown when you enter a new bang.
Author:  markr [ Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thank you for your replies.

Guess I have not been playing the game long enough to appreciate how the ztm data can be used if you get it at the start. I understand some of the comments but if the ZTM is important to how you play the game then this is the first thing you are going to do. Guess this gives the other players that dont need the ztm data a good start.

Just out of interest was the cim ever ment to be used by the players. Was this a hidden feature like * at the main menu that was found.

Thanks Mark.
Author:  Kavanagh [ Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by markr

Thank you for your replies.

Guess I have not been playing the game long enough to appreciate how the ztm data can be used if you get it at the start. I understand some of the comments but if the ZTM is important to how you play the game then this is the first thing you are going to do. Guess this gives the other players that dont need the ztm data a good start.

Just out of interest was the cim ever ment to be used by the players. Was this a hidden feature like * at the main menu that was found.

Thanks Mark.







Prior to TWGS, CIM was sort of a hidden feature. In order to get the cim prompt, it was necessary to send the character string ÈÉÊËÌÍ at the computer prompt. (<alt>200 thru <alt>205 on the number pad). Some of my old scripts still have it instead of ^.

It still works.
Author:  sonic boom [ Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
What Kav forgot to mention is that back in the day, scripts and or helpers would manually interrogate every port that you have visited. You can imagine that this would be more of a drain on system resources, and take longer, than the SIM method. It was introduced to make things easier for the player, helper, and game op.

-Sb
Author:  The Mad Hatter [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:07 am ]
Post subject: 
quote:What Kav forgot to mention is that back in the day, scripts and or helpers would manually interrogate every port that you have visited. You can imagine that this would be more of a drain on system resources, and take longer, than the SIM method. It was introduced to make things easier for the player, helper, and game op.

-Sb

Quite true - but quite wrong as well. Server load wasn't an issue with TW2002 V1 when CIM was first introduced. The issue was on-line time. Most boards only had one line, and if I was trying to update my map, you couldn't connect. And my wife couldn't use the phone (well she could - we splurged on two phone lines, one of which became the BBS line when I put "Through the Looking Glass" up full time.

There was one local board - Canada Remote Systems, that actually ran over a hundred nodes. They managed to make TW2002 V1 run so that more than one player could be in the game at a time, and quickly found out that there were some interesting bugs...
Author:  sonic boom [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Really? My machine always seemed to lag down whenever someone was doing any ZTM'ing or port reports. I never did have any luck getting more than one node of TW working, but with 3 DESQview windows up and running, and with a 2 node system, I did notice lag. I didn't have the best hardware back in the day, but it wasn't all that crappy either. But it did take a long time tho. [:P] Ahhh... the good days of multi-node ringdown and all the kewl 3lit3 stuff.. brings back memories [}:)]

-Sb
Author:  Baited [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:27 am ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by markr

Thank you for your replies.

Guess I have not been playing the game long enough to appreciate how the ztm data can be used if you get it at the start. I understand some of the comments but if the ZTM is important to how you play the game then this is the first thing you are going to do. Guess this gives the other players that dont need the ztm data a good start.



The ZTM is important to alot of players and very useful, but it is not the first thing people do. Their are more valuable things at the beginiing of the game to do especially if you are playing with a mixed corp. Getting cash and getting your reds going is very important, thats why most people do the ztm after they are done running their turns on day 1 or while they are waiting their turn on day 1 to run their turns, this all depends on the stratedgy you and your corp is doing.
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