I have been thinking about this for quite some time, and I don't believe it would be that hard to make this change to the TW code.
When a fighter destroys a eprobe it should self destruct. It would only cost 1 fighter to destory 1 probe, so if there are multiple fighters in the sector, it would only reduce the fig amount by 1. This would make gridding out the universe much harder, and would add a new option to invasions. I think this would really make stardock blockades much harder, and also hinder planet drop scripts allowing newer players to at least have a chance to play.

Just a suggestion. Comments below, but please let's not turn this into a smack talk thread. Civil comments only.

So someone could sit at dock and play 'Space Invaders' and whittle the grid down from there? Downside I can see is the price of eprobes is a constant, and the 'value' of sectors will vary. By value, I mean the actual investments in turns to go out and plant a fig to secure the sector.

Might make for an interesting option for an edit though any change in game mechanics will give us script tinkerers an edge over the anti-helper/script user crowd.

Not trying to be negative, just looking at all sides of things.

The price of an eprobe will be constantly higher then the price of a fig. Sure they could clear out a grid around the dock, that is what I was thinking. I'll agreee it would put SD blockades in the past.

If you can get JP to make the change... hehe.

As for whether it'd help anyone, not really. If you've got enough cash to wittle down the grid then you're not a newb to begin with. If you're just coming into the game it's not like established corps are going to limit themselves to a single fig per sector, lol. If I setup a blockade I usually go for thousands or more. Do you really want to buy thousands of eprobes when we can just come back in and drop more figs in the sector? lol...

Easy counter tactic... fill the amtrack sectors w/ more than 1 fig, say 1k figs per. Then you'd have to probe from somewhere else other than dock or fed. In the process revealing your location.



Really, it'll put SD blockades in the past? So uhm, you're going to probe thru 10k figs? That's what, 10k probes? Good luck on that. I'll laugh at it too, sit and watch you spend all your money on eprobes, then just put the figs back when they're low. Then I'll start with the fedcom smack, oh yea... lol, nice waste of cash there. Good luck getting anything done when there's a 10:1 cost difference. Heck, I could even write a script "dock blockade tracker" that keeps track of the fig count around dock and refills it if it gets low.

If you want to stop SD blockades just put stardock next to fedspace.

Big D...You been playing TW for years and you still not have figured out how to beat an SD blockade???

So someone could clear all your sector figs in your base 1 at a time using eprobes? Can you say spam?

Hell, I've been spammed when I played when someone would attack a front sector of mine that had like 10,000 figs and they would either retreat and re-enter or attack my figs like 1 fig at a time.

I'm probably one of the best at starting a game late. SD blocks don't effect me much. I'm not thinking of me, I'm just trying to think of ways to make the game more attractive to new players. Putting 10k figs in every sector around the dock is costly, especially if you don't get them picked up before extern. Sing, you are always thinking in terms of unlimited turn games. Sure, anyone can lock down a game quicking in those type games. I'm talking mostly about low turn games where it would be beneficial to players trying to get out of the dock without dieing immediately. As far as the spam part? I can spam you at the dock so many times it would lock you up by hitting random figs surrounding the dock and retreating using a simple script I could make in 30 seconds. What's the difference?

Uhh no, no I'm not. I'm thinking, in this instance, of a 4 man 1000 turn game where a few k figs per sector around dock is definately not hard to pull off after everyone's ran. If I was thinking unlim I'd have said 100k figs per sector, not a few K. Granted solo 250 turn games would be different, but in those situations who the heck is going to have enough money to probe clear a universe?

You're talking about spending 10x the amount of cash (or more) to kill a fig as it does to lay one, at no point is that efficient... neither turns or unlim. That's why I don't really care if this feature ever does get added, lol, go ahead... add it, I'll eat it for dinner. This whole strategy reminds me of something SGO would come up with.

A few days into the game it would be quite trivial to put 1k per amtrack sector. I've done it before.



No you couldn't. Especially in a low turns game, you'd either get torped, killed or run out of turns. Most people aren't stupid enough to let that sorta thing go.

Given that there's a 250 ms move delay at the very least, it certainly would not lock anyone up.

What's the difference? Risk. If you go hitting figs you're risking #SD#. If you just sit back and probe, well that's different isn't it. But still, go ahead and add it. Watch out fast people adapt... and laugh and laugh and laugh. Oh the fedcom chatter would be quite entertaining.

In an unlimited I could spam anyone that has a SD block up, because I've done it numerous times just having fun with certain people. As far as the idea of it taking 1 fig to kill a probe, you seem to think it wouldn't make any difference. Well, it probably wouldn't make a big difference, so what's the harm? Every little bit helps to make the game more interesting. Most of the comments in these type threads are stating opinions and what they think about change. Some agree, some disagree. Now to avoid turning this into a flame, I'm going to ask you one question and then stop replying to you Sing. Do you ever agree with anyone elses point of view, or do you just get a kick out of a debate regardless if that side of the debate is right or wrong?

Fine, if you manage to not get torped and stuck in the sector sure, but it won't lock anyone up or cause any other problems. Not like you're going anywhere w/ a blockade up. Toss out the unlim and put in a turns game and of course that ends quite quickly. And since your original criticism was "you keep thinking of unlims" I find it a bit ironic that's the direction you went there.

I don't think it would make any difference, and I actually said last post "I don't really care if it gets added" so frankly... I don't think there is any harm. If you can get JP to add it as an option, then by all means. I do think the conclusion tho that "I'll agreee it would put SD blockades in the past." is uhm, a wheeee bit over-optimistic. As in, oh, completely unfounded.



Assuming there is a right and wrong in a debate, which is more often than not just a bit presumptuous, I agree with people that make good cogent points based on deep thought about a particular subject. The problem is... most people don't really think a problem thru. It's a lack of what's called "systemic thought." We all do it of course (I'm an expert at forgetting things, lol), but the response to criticism varies. At that point it boils down to going "oh yea, that's a good point, I didn't think about that" or going "Oh yeh? Nah nah, I'm still right, now shut up!" Oftentimes I find that to be the best part of arguments in general, ie: finding elements that were missed in the original thought process. That's why I like to debate, it forces missed material to the surface and sharpens the mind.

You made a comment that this probe thing would end SD blockades. I responded saying that there's more than one way to beat it, and in the end the cost of probes compared to figs probably makes it an inefficient. Rather than going "Oh, yeh, that's a good point, but it'd still be useful to have in a game where people haven't adjusted to dropping more than one fig per sector, or in games where people aren't paying attention" you're basically pulling off on a tangent of "waah, do you ever play nice?"

My thoughts on that... leave the tangent-taking to rexxcrow, he's got that strategy mastered. And no, I never play nice.

We use what is termed as "root cause analysis" for many problems including accident investigation specifically because of the point you make on people not thinking the issue(s) through. It is funny how many times the "real" problem identified off-the-cuff is wrong.

SD blocked - solution sweeper scripts
Players SD'd quickly - solution truce
No colos at Terra - solution colo drops whenever

The "solutions" don't get to the real issue which may be the player's lack of ability/knowledge. We "dumb down" the game instead of having players learn. Each of the three items above can be addressed by players - if they try. Most don't want to try as evidenced by the number of "cheats" on the Internet for various games. I've never understood why someone would pay for a game and then use a "cheat" to get through it.

On the topic of eprobes killing a fig - fine. I would drop enough figs so that it would be a drain on the resources of the person eprobing. At the start of a game it might be of some interest.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Yes prom, that's what I was sort of getting at. SD blocks that cause a problem for starting players usually happens at the beginning of the game. I think it would be an interesting tactic at that point. Later in the game, it would probably be something not used much. Something it could effect is jump point figs. Also I was thinking maybe a new option for a sysop to use. Maybe not all games call for such an edit. I actually appreciate the contructive opinions and ideas from some people.

Nice. Actually tho I was going the other direction with it, X->Y, Y->Z, but forgetting that Z->X, such that changes in X result in a self-sustaining change cycle for X over time that, often times, makes the changes useless.



Absolutely agreed.

Off-topic, but I can understand game trainers and cheat codes tho... 10th time thru a game, sometimes all you want is particular part of the game, or to experience things a bit out of order. I did that on final fantasy 7 yeaaars ago, level 99 at the start, enjoyed killing that midgar water snake thing... revvvveennnnnggggeeeee... laff.



Nod. Easy solution isn't it?



It can, yes. Not sure if it's disproportional to later in the game or not. Easy solution is just to put terra next to stardock, or just learn to bypass blockades.



There's a script out there that sweeps the MSLs every-so-often of figs. Could just use that. Altho I agree with prome, it's not really doing anyone any favors.

One of the things that have always seemed backwards to me is that after a planet goes L5 that it doesn't generate shields in the same way that a planet generates figs, fuel, organics, and equipment.

Cerne