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 A humble suggestion 
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Lance Corporal

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:27 pm
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Unread post A humble suggestion
Okay, so on the heels of my third footshooting in as many weeks, I've got a suggestion for the TW2k developers.

A principle of good UI design is that it should not make catastrophic tasks easy to perform by accident, that the possibility of unintentional damage should be mitigated to the extent possible. In the game, the letter "b" maps to, variously, "Toggle Interdictor Control", "Transport to another sector", or "Self-destruct", depending on what menu you're currently in. Further, all of those menu options have a simple verification code that is the same - "y" for "go ahead and do it" - and the self-destruct menu does not interpret numbers, so the intervening string of numbers for a transport doesn't break you out of the menu. Two of these options are "safe", relatively speaking; the third is catastrophic. You see where I'm going with this.

So, I suggest two options:

(a) Remap the self-destruct key to something else that isn't commonly used. "+", perhaps, or one of the other symbol keys. This at least removes the possibility of an accidental (and costly) self-destruct as a result of momentary inattention to which menu one is at.

(b) [much better] Add a new option to the C->N menu: "Ship Self-Destruct Code". This echoes the Star Trek theme, where a code was required to initiate self-destruct, it wasn't possible for any random jackass to just push a big red button marked "Self-Destruct" in small print, set right between two other big red buttons marked "Fire Photon Torpedoes" and "Engage Warp Drive" (also in small print) and instantly blow up the ship. A timer might also be a useful addition - three, two, one, &c. It also mirrors other security measures, such as ship passwords.

(c) On that topic, maybe require that, at least, the ship's password be entered correctly for a destruct sequence. I mean, honestly - it requires a password to tow or transport onto a ship (for security purposes), but nothing at all to blow it up? Hwuh? SRSLY?

Since there are no situations that come readily to mind where it is of any advantage whatsoever to be able to instantly self-destruct, I don't see where this costs a great deal in terms of gameplay, and the benefits are relatively obvious. I can't imagine that I'm the only one that's goatse'd myself by accidentally blowing up my own ship when I intended to do something else entirely.

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Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:58 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
sdeath wrote:
Okay, so on the heels of my third footshooting in as many weeks, I've got a suggestion for the TW2k developers.

A principle of good UI design is that it should not make catastrophic tasks easy to perform by accident, that the possibility of unintentional damage should be mitigated to the extent possible. In the game, the letter "b" maps to, variously, "Toggle Interdictor Control", "Transport to another sector", or "Self-destruct", depending on what menu you're currently in. Further, all of those menu options have a simple verification code that is the same - "y" for "go ahead and do it" - and the self-destruct menu does not interpret numbers, so the intervening string of numbers for a transport doesn't break you out of the menu. Two of these options are "safe", relatively speaking; the third is catastrophic. You see where I'm going with this.

So, I suggest two options:

(a) Remap the self-destruct key to something else that isn't commonly used. "+", perhaps, or one of the other symbol keys. This at least removes the possibility of an accidental (and costly) self-destruct as a result of momentary inattention to which menu one is at.

(b) [much better] Add a new option to the C->N menu: "Ship Self-Destruct Code". This echoes the Star Trek theme, where a code was required to initiate self-destruct, it wasn't possible for any random jackass to just push a big red button marked "Self-Destruct" in small print, set right between two other big red buttons marked "Fire Photon Torpedoes" and "Engage Warp Drive" (also in small print) and instantly blow up the ship. A timer might also be a useful addition - three, two, one, &c. It also mirrors other security measures, such as ship passwords.

(c) On that topic, maybe require that, at least, the ship's password be entered correctly for a destruct sequence. I mean, honestly - it requires a password to tow or transport onto a ship (for security purposes), but nothing at all to blow it up? Hwuh? SRSLY?

Since there are no situations that come readily to mind where it is of any advantage whatsoever to be able to instantly self-destruct, I don't see where this costs a great deal in terms of gameplay, and the benefits are relatively obvious. I can't imagine that I'm the only one that's goatse'd myself by accidentally blowing up my own ship when I intended to do something else entirely.

--
"it's no surprise to me I am my own worst enemy"
-SD


I very resently self-destructed accidentally myself. I like the idea of safty measure. Most all movies show you need codes and two sets of keys to start the self-destruct sequence. And then it's still on a timer.


Maybe a good 4.0 change. I don't think JP is going to change the classic game.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:34 am
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
There is a safety measure. When you hit C, then B, it
asks whether you want to self-destruct or not.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:33 am
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
A couple of months ago I too accidentally self destructed, I'll blame it on a very laggy server and not my own stupidity. I think this suggestion is very valid and probably an easy fix.
just my 2 $cents worth.


Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:56 am
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
Changing the key strokes to something other than "cby" would be fine. As for the timer, I don't agree with that, because self destructing can keep an enemy from getting your cash and/or experience. The keystrokes really wouldn't be a factor because it could be set up as macro on a hot key, but the timer would pretty much eliminate this tactic.


Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:30 am
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
I had it happen a few times years ago running 1000 loops of bwarp colo macros but as a bwarp script requires a "lock" code to ensure a positive warp point. Lag makes strange things happen tho.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:40 am
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
I like the CN idea to prevent the accident cby. This would still allow a quick cby if in a bad situation by using a script - $cby would be quick.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:52 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
Singularity wrote:
There is a safety measure. When you hit C, then B, it
asks whether you want to self-destruct or not.


Yeah. Let's look at that.

The verification - 'y' - is the same verification as used to toggle the interdictor generator and to verify transport from a transporter. This is not a mitigation tool, it is an invitation to frustration. It is equivalent to the aforementioned row of three big red buttons on the bridge of the starship, with the first marked "Fire Photon Torpedoes" in small print, the second marked "Instantly Destroy Ship", and the third marked "Engage Warp Drive". It invites failure by its very design. (There's a reason you don't see things designed that way in, e.g., actual ships, or industrial processes, or well-designed software.) So yeah, it's not a safety measure, in any sense of the word that involves actual safety.

I can tell you how this happened - "feature creep". For those who remember the days when there was no such thing as a citadel transporter or a interdictor generator, it becomes obvious - as these features were added, they were "overloaded" onto keys that were not used in their respective menus. Once upon a time "b" used to be safe - now it's commonly used.

In keeping with the internal logic of the TradeWars universe, it makes sense to require a ship password, at least, before destruction - that maintains consistency with the purpose of a password (security for certain operations), maintains consistency with the genre (see above, "not possible for any random jackass walking by to blow up the ship by pressing one button"), and prevents needless frustration. I agree that blindwarping is the sort of thing that should have a penalty, but note that bwarping has a possibility of survival - if the sector is empty, you make it just fine. It also pods you (if you have pods left for the day), instead of destroying both ship and pod instantly, reducing all your turns to zero, setting alignment and experience to zero, and making you wait to do anything or even log back in until extern. There is an element of chance, in other words, and a possibility of survival, or at least mitigation. Instant guaranteed destruction as the result of a fatfingered command sequence is, on the other hand, a little much.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:06 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
The game developer is currently doing a new version.

Bring this up again in the BETA section. Maybe you will get your wish.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:10 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
Well, until then...

" c x q b ..."

The xq buffer works great from the citadel
prompt to make sure you don't accidentally
end up at the computer prompt and cby.

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:31 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
It would be nice if any key input other than "Y" at the self destruct menu has the same effect as hitting "N".

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Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:49 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
Hey there ya go. Instead of accepting Y, N, and enter, accept
any key and anything other than Y aborts. That could be done
in the current version w/o changing any prompts or text.

Sweet...

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1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
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Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:52 pm
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
sdeath wrote:

Since there are no situations that come readily to mind where it is of any advantage whatsoever to be able to instantly self-destruct, I don't see where this costs a great deal in terms of gameplay, and the benefits are relatively obvious. I can't imagine that I'm the only one that's goatse'd myself by accidentally blowing up my own ship when I intended to do something else entirely.

--
"it's no surprise to me I am my own worst enemy"
-SD


I can think of one situation. I remember Guardian catching me in a death limit tourney, USO I think. I CBYd to avoid having two deaths instead of one.


Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:11 am
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Unread post Re: A humble suggestion
To deny start up cash to your attacker.

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