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 Megacorping Discussion 
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
TheButcher wrote:
mob wrote:
Let me make this point. We got two "well known" corps. GZ and Krakken right? Right. So point of tourny is to knock others out and call victory right? Right.

We got Krakken or GZ moving in on iSilver Surfers. So one of the heavy hitters going after "the weaker" corp (Not my words I can find the quote from someone if wanted).

WITH ALL THESE "elite" players and groups in one game. Why didn't the corp that was not part of the initial attacks go after the other "heavy hitter"?

It would only make sense that one of the "better prepared" corps are using resources to attack another corp making them infact weak as well. Why would BOTH "elite" corps go after the small then say OK now lets get each other. Makes no sense...sorry


No offence but thats the corps CEO decision on who to target and not to, its easy to say what "you "would have done it different, but I didnt see you bring a corp in to play!


Your right I didn't, thank you for making that point. I can however state my opinion and ask a pretty OBVIOUS question. Lets not all act like the CEO's of both corps are noobs :)

I am putting the senerio out there. Im putting a different spin on it out there. Im making the point that as "elite" players why do we need to MC. Im sorry...whats the definition of "elite"?

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:07 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
Runaway Proton wrote:
T0yman wrote:
TheButcher wrote:
Runaway Proton wrote:
It's a bit off topic here, but T0yman brings up an interesting point.
I stress he's not complaining about the game in progress, but if you share information, is that sharing assets?

Well If I used my money "assets" to up a port for buydowns and c1 gridded over it and used it, is that considered sharing assets? ROFL

Not if I gridded over it. But if another corp told me where that port was then yes it would be a violation of the rule I ask about. Just a different form of mega corping than most think about but data/resource sharing none the less.

I think, if I'm reading this correct, that T0yman is eluding to the point that sharing of assets (information included) is MC.
I've kinda kept the two seperate for this discussion, but I'd have to agree that two teams sharing information through a game, even if they are never seen in the same sector together in a game, are a MC. It's still "two teams working together". Harder to prove yes, but I'd have to agree in principle. I think when you see two teams mowing through each others grids, and not attacking each other, but if a third team moves they get attacked, there's been information shared, and on that note a MC is formed.


This is absurd!!!!!! If a team cant defend its grid, as in this case T0ys corp, I would rather mow toys grid VS. gridded Krakkens, cause we know that Krakken will better defend its grid!!!! So your basically saying that we make a wise decision and you think its a form of megacorp???? ROFL what a joke

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:08 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
T0yman wrote:
mob wrote:
There are far more honest players in this game then there is dishonest. You cannot please the dishonest and ruin the game for the honest.

Amen!


It's not about pleasing the dishonest, it's about providing a stable environment with clearly defined rules. Some people consider it honest as long as the rules are not being broken. Others consider it honest as long as they don't get caught breaking the rules. To avoid ruining it for the honest, you need to catch the dishonest ones breaking the rules, and you need to catch them every time, or not make the rule in the first place.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:11 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
Astrochimp wrote:
mob wrote:
A decent sysop can see if its MC.


How? We haven't even properly defined MC. If one corp gives a sector number to another corp, is that MC? How does a sysop know that it's happened?


Thats one possible situation. Your right....how would anyone know UNLESS someone reported it from the corp that got the information. It happens more then you think...I have all kinds of interesting logs :)

MC should be defined as the sysop decides. Again I think we are all smart enough to say what a basic MC situation is. Lets not all play dumb.

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:12 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
mob wrote:
TheButcher wrote:
mob wrote:
Let me make this point. We got two "well known" corps. GZ and Krakken right? Right. So point of tourny is to knock others out and call victory right? Right.

We got Krakken or GZ moving in on iSilver Surfers. So one of the heavy hitters going after "the weaker" corp (Not my words I can find the quote from someone if wanted).

WITH ALL THESE "elite" players and groups in one game. Why didn't the corp that was not part of the initial attacks go after the other "heavy hitter"?

It would only make sense that one of the "better prepared" corps are using resources to attack another corp making them infact weak as well. Why would BOTH "elite" corps go after the small then say OK now lets get each other. Makes no sense...sorry


No offence but thats the corps CEO decision on who to target and not to, its easy to say what "you "would have done it different, but I didnt see you bring a corp in to play!


Your right I didn't, thank you for making that point. I can however state my opinion and ask a pretty OBVIOUS question. Lets not all act like the CEO's of both corps are noobs :)

I am putting the senerio out there. Im putting a different spin on it out there. Im making the point that as "elite" players why do we need to MC. Im sorry...whats the definition of "elite"?


Well question has been asked a few time, and answered just as many!! When there is blood it the water sharks attack, its part of the food chain, if toys corp didnt make so many bad decisions and showed some strength, and we felt that krakkens grid was easier to target, we would have went that route!!!

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:12 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
mob wrote:
Astrochimp wrote:
mob wrote:
A decent sysop can see if its MC.


How? We haven't even properly defined MC. If one corp gives a sector number to another corp, is that MC? How does a sysop know that it's happened?


Thats one possible situation. Your right....how would anyone know UNLESS someone reported it from the corp that got the information. It happens more then you think...I have all kinds of interesting logs :)

MC should be defined as the sysop decides. Again I think we are all smart enough to say what a basic MC situation is. Lets not all play dumb.


Agree, remember last years ice tournament? MOB you were there on booinc, well remember when Xanos(your CEO) couldnt get in to our bubble, so he decided to make a planet adj to our door and name it "ground zero is adj." then blow both the planet and port? Ask your "lite" CEO why he did it, maybe he will answer some questions for ya.

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Last edited by TheButcher on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:17 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
mob wrote:
Astrochimp wrote:
mob wrote:
A decent sysop can see if its MC.


How? We haven't even properly defined MC. If one corp gives a sector number to another corp, is that MC? How does a sysop know that it's happened?


Thats one possible situation. Your right....how would anyone know UNLESS someone reported it from the corp that got the information. It happens more then you think...I have all kinds of interesting logs :)


I know... it happens much more often than it actually gets discovered. That's what I'm saying, the dishonest have an advantage because the rule is not enforceable. You only catch it when you're lucky enough that the megacorp's information sharing makes it into the logs (which is dumb... they should just use icq or whatever).
mob wrote:
MC should be defined as the sysop decides. Again I think we are all smart enough to say what a basic MC situation is. Lets not all play dumb.

I'm sure not smart enough, unless they are obvious about it... the only way i'd be 'smart enough' is if I could eavesdrop their icq conversations and whatnot.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:17 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
Astrochimp wrote:
T0yman wrote:
mob wrote:
There are far more honest players in this game then there is dishonest. You cannot please the dishonest and ruin the game for the honest.

Amen!


It's not about pleasing the dishonest, it's about providing a stable environment with clearly defined rules. Some people consider it honest as long as the rules are not being broken. Others consider it honest as long as they don't get caught breaking the rules. To avoid ruining it for the honest, you need to catch the dishonest ones breaking the rules, and you need to catch them every time, or not make the rule in the first place.


As a society, again lets not play dumb. If your being dishonest, and you don't get caught. IT IS NOT being honest. lol

Again, there are sysops that look one way for some. Crack the whip at others. Nothing we can do for that. There are going to be situations that people get away with it. Nothing you can do about that.

But by your examples, if someone robs a bank...gets away with it. But the people who do it and get caught cry about getting caught and the ethics behind the people that get away. Should we just not have it as a law?

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:24 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
mob wrote:
Im sorry...whats the definition of "elite"?


Oh Brother! Here we go again LOL

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:24 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
TheButcher wrote:
mob wrote:
Astrochimp wrote:
mob wrote:
A decent sysop can see if its MC.


How? We haven't even properly defined MC. If one corp gives a sector number to another corp, is that MC? How does a sysop know that it's happened?


Thats one possible situation. Your right....how would anyone know UNLESS someone reported it from the corp that got the information. It happens more then you think...I have all kinds of interesting logs :)

MC should be defined as the sysop decides. Again I think we are all smart enough to say what a basic MC situation is. Lets not all play dumb.


I will ask him.

Agree, remember last years ice tournament? MOB you were there on booinc, well remember when Xanos(your CEO) couldnt get in to our bubble, so he decided to make a planet adj to our door and name it "ground zero is adj." then blow both the planet and port? Ask your "lite" CEO why he did it, maybe he will answer some questions for ya.

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:26 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
mob wrote:
Astrochimp wrote:
It's not about pleasing the dishonest, it's about providing a stable environment with clearly defined rules. Some people consider it honest as long as the rules are not being broken. Others consider it honest as long as they don't get caught breaking the rules. To avoid ruining it for the honest, you need to catch the dishonest ones breaking the rules, and you need to catch them every time, or not make the rule in the first place.


As a society, again lets not play dumb. If your being dishonest, and you don't get caught. IT IS NOT being honest. lol

Again, there are sysops that look one way for some. Crack the whip at others. Nothing we can do for that. There are going to be situations that people get away with it. Nothing you can do about that.

But by your examples, if someone robs a bank...gets away with it. But the people who do it and get caught cry about getting caught and the ethics behind the people that get away. Should we just not have it as a law?


If a bank is robbed, at least you know it was robbed, and you can investigate. If someone shares information, you don't even know it happened, unless they were completely stupid about it. It's almost completely unenforceable. The bank robbery is not a good analogy because it's very enforceable; the rule against bank robberies serves as an excellent deterrent. The rule against information sharing does not.

I'm not 'playing dumb' here. Remember, I have little or no knowledge about the BOTE situation. I get the impression you are talking about that in particular, whereas I am talking about the rule in general.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:27 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
Lets focus on the megacorping without pointing fingers please. Pointing fingers actually clouds things. You might even want to focus on things like blowing ports adj to a base since that shows up in the logs and can be proven.

H

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:30 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
The question is a general one, but BOTE is being used as an example because it is fresh. But yes, we can stop pointing fingers here. Perhaps the discussion has reached it's potential.
There seems to be no win here for either player or sysop.

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:31 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
Astrochimp wrote:
mob wrote:
Astrochimp wrote:
mob wrote:
A decent sysop can see if its MC.


How? We haven't even properly defined MC. If one corp gives a sector number to another corp, is that MC? How does a sysop know that it's happened?


Thats one possible situation. Your right....how would anyone know UNLESS someone reported it from the corp that got the information. It happens more then you think...I have all kinds of interesting logs :)


I know... it happens much more often than it actually gets discovered. That's what I'm saying, the dishonest have an advantage because the rule is not enforceable. You only catch it when you're lucky enough that the megacorp's information sharing makes it into the logs (which is dumb... they should just use icq or whatever).
mob wrote:
MC should be defined as the sysop decides. Again I think we are all smart enough to say what a basic MC situation is. Lets not all play dumb.

I'm sure not smart enough, unless they are obvious about it... the only way i'd be 'smart enough' is if I could eavesdrop their icq conversations and whatnot.


Wrong, logs only play a small part of catching someone. Like I said before just because it isn't in the log doesn't mean your not breaking a rule.

THERE are specific tricks people use to MC. I can go into them all but why talk about a tactic we want to try to enforce. ANYTHING is enforceable if the sysop decides to. I only came here to make valid points about MC because ive been at both ends.

I did not come here to accuse or defend my CEO's actions from a game for over a year ago. Ive made my points. Agreed Helix.

Thank ya!

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Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:33 pm
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Unread post Re: Megacorping Discussion
Helix wrote:
You might even want to focus on things like blowing ports adj to a base since that shows up in the logs and can be proven.

Yeah, so 'no blowing ports adj to a base' is an example of an enforceable rule. It's specific, non-ambiguous and easy to discover a breach. The rule 'No megacorping' does not share those traits.


Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:35 pm
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