Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
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Kewlbreeze
Commander
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1419 Location: USA
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Helix wrote: No I am saying there are more than 20 players playing tradewars
H So what do you think Helix, is the majority of tradwars player consisting of scripters or non-scripters? Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in tradewars?
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Founding Member of: Flying Ace's
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:00 am |
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Promethius
Ambassador
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 am Posts: 3141 Location: Kansas
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Kewlbreeze wrote: Helix wrote: No I am saying there are more than 20 players playing tradewars
H So what do you think Helix, is the majority of tradwars player consisting of scripters or non-scripters? Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in tradewars? The majority are probably script users of the non-scripter type. Some players just modify other people's scripts, some are like myself and write their own fairly simple scripts, and a very few write complex, reliable scripts.
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/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /
"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:29 am |
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T0yman
Veteran Op
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm Posts: 2059 Location: Oklahoma
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Helix wrote: You guys need to remember that many players talk through email. Saying 10 players on facebook is like saying the 10-20 that post here are all the players there are.
H My number was purely sarcasm, my mistake I forgot to add the tag [/sarcasm]
_________________ T0yman (Permanently Retired since 2012) Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:44 am |
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bobad
Gameop
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:09 am Posts: 67
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Without factual information you all are just pulling numbers out of the air. Quite meaningless.
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:04 am |
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Oso
Commander
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:00 am Posts: 1324 Location: USA
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Kewlbreeze wrote: Helix wrote: No I am saying there are more than 20 players playing tradewars
H So what do you think Helix, is the majority of tradwars player consisting of scripters or non-scripters? Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in tradewars? I think the majority of the tradewars players enjoy playing the game as they want to. You'll find all sorts of servers that offer different types of games for the varying players out there. If you don't want to get pdropped, play on cruncher's server. If you want a truce to start, play on UTW, etc. I remember years ago we had a debate about truce games. My view then was that it would hurt players in the long run because they wouldn't learn how to cope with SD blockades or fed nav haz. But there was a demand for it, and it still exists and thrives. Is it the "right way to play tradewars?" for those on UTW, yes! There is no one "right way to play tradewars". I love scripts. I am fascinated by them. I love to look at the code and see what it can do. I can't program for beans, but I am trying. I love macros. Setting them up properly so that you won't end up on the other side of the universe in a pod... This game is unique in that it can be configured in so many different ways. Turns, time, unlim, game edits, etc. Want people to play blue? Turn on steal/rob delay. Want people to play red? Make an edit with crap planets. Don't want dupes? Turn on IP enforcement. JP is working to add things to this game to give sysops even more tools in order to please their player base. Please keep in mind that this is a game we all love and play in our own special way.
_________________ Infecting others with a Polymorphic Virus since 1975.
Curing ignorance and terminal stupidity since 1999.
Questioning the intellectual abilities of three digit annual salary earners since 2015.
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:09 am |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Promethius wrote: The majority are probably script users of the non-scripter type. Some players just modify other people's scripts, some are like myself and write their own fairly simple scripts, and a very few write complex, reliable scripts. This terminology is very confusing. Almost anyone can write a script, and/or modify someone else's script. At some point though, a script becomes so complex that it should be considered a small program. These "Scripters" became programmers when they reached that level.
_________________ Regards, Micro Website: http://www.microblaster.net TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:30 am |
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Kavanagh
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1410 Location: Boo! inc. Ireland
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Micro wrote: Big D wrote: Will some unscrupulous scripter try to get around it? Very possible. I don't think "unscrupulous" is a strong enough word. There is no way that anyone could consider "working around" this as an "advanced tactic" or accetable game play. If someone is that determined to cheat, then no-one should be willing to play with them. And yes, this is an optional feature, so those who want to play un-inhibited can continue to do so... As sure as night follows day, some script writer(s) will try to find a work around. I'd give a better than even chance that they will succeed.
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:39 am |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Kavanagh wrote: Micro wrote: Big D wrote: Will some unscrupulous scripter try to get around it? Very possible. I don't think "unscrupulous" is a strong enough word. There is no way that anyone could consider "working around" this as an "advanced tactic" or accetable game play. If someone is that determined to cheat, then no-one should be willing to play with them. And yes, this is an optional feature, so those who want to play un-inhibited can continue to do so... As sure as night follows day, some script writer(s) will try to find a work around. I'd give a better than even chance that they will succeed. My point is that these people will have absolutly no ground to stand on when they claim this isn't cheating.
_________________ Regards, Micro Website: http://www.microblaster.net TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
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Last edited by Micro on Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:51 am |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
I personally don't mind if a player is using a relog script, so I probably wouldn't want to enable this at login. I think it should be triggered when a player is running a repetative loop for an extended period of time. The GameOp should be able to select the number of loops to trigger it. It should also be an option to trigger it when a player is AFK. All helpers have keep-alives, so it would need to trigger on something else. Perhaps when a player isn't expending any turns for x number of minutes.
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:57 am |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Micro wrote: I personally don't mind if a player is using a relog script, so I probably wouldn't want to enable this at login. I think it should be triggered when a player is running a repetative loop for an extended period of time. The GameOp should be able to select the number of loops to trigger it. It should also be an option to trigger it when a player is AFK. All helpers have keep-alives, so it would need to trigger on something else. Perhaps when a player isn't expending any turns for x number of minutes. See, this is a case where you state no scripts except relog scripts and make the the game "no script friendly" ie low turn, low sector with a 1 hour time limit and a 20 min relog penalty. That seems more reasonable to me. I would never play a 1000 sector game with 250 turns per day at this stage of my tw play. H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:26 pm |
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Promethius
Ambassador
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 am Posts: 3141 Location: Kansas
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Micro wrote: Promethius wrote: The majority are probably script users of the non-scripter type. Some players just modify other people's scripts, some are like myself and write their own fairly simple scripts, and a very few write complex, reliable scripts. This terminology is very confusing. Almost anyone can write a script, and/or modify someone else's script. At some point though, a script becomes so complex that it should be considered a small program. These "Scripters" became programmers when they reached that level. Isn't it tho? It is really the progression a lot of us take - we use other people's scripts, decide that if the script would "just do this" it would be better and learn how to modify it, then decide we want to have the challenge of writing something from scratch (usually simple), and then we want to create something good. At various stages we run our new pride and joy and are promptly SD'd.
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/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /
"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:44 pm |
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-=shadow=-
Sergeant
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:52 am Posts: 9
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Well I for one played this game back in the 90's when it first came out. It was fun but it lacked much. Since coming back I've found the bots and the scripts have brought to the game what the original was missing. I didn't have that much problem with it I just talked to a few people and downloaded what I needed. Anyone can do what I did and enjoy the game much more with a few downloads. That said, anyone that has problems with bots or scripts just can't learn and I found a long time ago that being able to learn is what this game is all about. I've played a few games since I've started playing again and have learned that the ones who hate the scripts and bots the most are the ones who can't learn them as easy as they are to learn. And I've also learned that the ones who have played for so long that hate the scripts and bots are the ones who brag about how great they are and can't back it up. So for everyone who hates the bots and scripts, drop your attitude, learn something new, and enjoy.
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:28 am |
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Checkin It Out
Staff Sergeant
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 7:07 pm Posts: 10
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Hey gang, As a former player from the BBS days, I will way in with my 2 cents. First of all, I always come back to TW. It might take 3 months, a year, 3 years, but I always manage to find my way back. I don't think scripts are ruining the game. I think scripts are awesome. I cant even remotely consider doing mundane tasks (stealing, trading colo-ing) without them. I think its the lack of competitive scripts that kills my desire. I understand that there is an awful lot available for download. I have downloaded all of it. I know how to use 99% of it But my issue is, that although these scripts can be effective against the noobs to upper B level players, they are of no impact on the A level players. Any public script that is designed to either grid or stop a gridder, that is used against an "elite" player is borderline a waste. Yes I can sit on Plock for 6 hours and possibly get someone, but I don't consider that to be "me being competitive" What I have experienced is that if you play a truly competitive game, with Elite players, no matter how dedicated you are, you will eventually run into a situation where your public scripts are inadequate. They will grid you into a corner, and hence game over. That to me is no fun, and after a few rounds of that, I lose my interest again. Now, the answers I have heard to this are: Learn to script (really? I need to be a computer programmer to compete??) become friends with people and have them give you scripts (tried to no avail, the answer inevitably becomes, sorry...I was told I cant give that to anyone) I understand not wanting to give up your competitive advantage. I really do. But if I cant beat you, due to my scripts being inadequate, how long am I going to stick around, only to loose EVERY time? People talk about either scripting or non scripting games. How about an "equal scripting game" ? How about something like, any non-public script being used get shared amongst players? I KNOW the Elites wont go for that, but I think that just summarizes my point. If you wont share what you have, knowing full well that you can beat what I have, why am I playing?? It is a situation that is designed to fail for me..... So in summary: I love scripts, but I hate having scripts that are always one step below my competition. I just don't think that is a recipe for overall game success.
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:16 pm |
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rem0te
1st Sergeant
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:20 am Posts: 45
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
Checkin It Out wrote: <snip long very relevant post, read it if you havent!>
So in summary: I love scripts, but I hate having scripts that are always one step below my competition. I just don't think that is a recipe for overall game success. I agree with you here. Scripts are nice and take care of a lot of time consuming repetitive work. But when you get to a point where the only way you can beat your adversary is by becomming a very good script writter (because those public script are made by good script writter), you are not playing the game anymore: you are writting script to win the game for you. The only way I see one could achieve "equal scripting game", is to have server side scripting while input on the client side are imposed a delay.
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:46 pm |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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Re: Should scripts be allowed or disallowed in Tradewars
rem0te wrote: The only way I see one could achieve "equal scripting game", is to have server side scripting while input on the client side are imposed a delay. Well, the way most MMOs do it, is with client side applications that block all suspious programs. Some of these can even block mouse and keyboard input if the source is not a device driver. It is not 100% effective, but it prevents most scripting outside of the game.
_________________ Regards, Micro Website: http://www.microblaster.net TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:57 pm |
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