It does take a level of programming knowledge and game mechanics knowledge to write reative scripts. Beyond that point, as long as these scripts are loose in the wild, any yahoo and fire them up and cause some damage.

The difference between reactive scripts and players at the keys is very simple... scripts are limited to their programming, people use observation, knowledge and reason to plan their moves. They are only limited by their knowledge and keyboarding skills.

I'm learning more and more about the vulerabilities of script play. And more about how today's players are much too dependant upon thier scripts to play. The more I learn about just who really is or is not "at the keys".

If we are allowed to disable TWX reactive scripts, we will be raising the skill level of players competing today. Especially now that most now have the same access to broadband.

I agree!

Most are not in the wild, and what damage are they causing? We have yet to establish the player-base you claim is out there. Only that you and a handful of other players refuse to spend the time to learn the mechanics behind how to beat said scripts.

You downplay the fact that most private "powerful" scripts are private. That's the issue here isn't it? That players who actively write these scripts use them against you and you feel slighted because you are unable (prolly cause of ego) to ask for help how to beat them. You take the stance "because you shouldn't have to", yet this is what the game is.

End of Story, its not changing only the players are. If JP makes this version and for example a V1 servers stopped existing, you still couldn't force a player to use these purposed changes.

You literally just said the exact same thing twice, they are both limited by the users. The only difference is that you think you stand a chance if everyone doesn't use TWX like they did back in the day.

So you continue your crusade babbling away thinking your making a difference getting people to agree or disagree with you. In the end you've only alienated people further, made JP say for the 10th umpteen time hes not making the version you want. Move on, institute the changes you can, maybe even take that programming skill your learning in school and work on Botlink with us so we can make a friendly learning game.



If you knew of the vulnerabilities it wouldn't be a issue anymore. Because you'd understand that many if not most are very basic scripts which are easily overcome by someone with a most basic level of observation.

It wouldn't raise the level,the same players who refuse to learn about TWX will refuse to learn how to write a macro. You can't force a player to be better you can only guide them, as we did with you and scripts. When you first re-joined this community you literally swore off all scripts. Do a search you'll see that you did.

Now your thinking of writing them, you actively use them including the reactive ones you get all pissy about. Cruncher, at this point you and Kav only are arguing to argue. You are hypocrits in that you try to set a limit to which you both script as if your high and lofty. When you both use the same scripts you pretend to detest. I have logs showing you using reactive scripts (photoner) among others..

Practice what you preach.

When in "Rome", I'm going to use the same "tools" as everyone else.

In a high turn game, I allow my teamates to bot some of my turns. Some days most or all, depending upon what's going on in my life.

This is not fun, this is not the way I would prefer to play. But unless and until someone defuses the reactive scripts, this is what the game has become.

Cop-out/Hypocrite

By high turns did you mean 2-3k? Because to the rest of us that's standard. If you don't like to play that way why would you? This is what the game has always been. Just used to be slower speeds.

JP has already given you all the tools you need to make the type of game you want, either through emulation of a single player at a time or by adding delay's. JP cannot force players to play a certain way to make it more likely for YOU to win.

I think my team did win the last tournament we played. The banner in my sig says so.

For me, high turns is anything >1250.

This is NOT about whether or not I can win, this is about bringing back a lost player base.

I have fun playing no matter what the outcome. I had a great time in BOTE 2011. We lasted much longer than expected, and we ran a manuever with scripts written on the spot by Xanos and T0yman. Even KB was astounded that we pulled that one off, right under his nose!

In Boo vs Boo, I was happy to play a 1500 turn game, then when it was upped to 3k turns, there's no way I had time to play that many turns. I had Xanos write a ppt script for me that was lightening fast! I play with some very talented script writters. Ask them why they let me tag along on their shirt-tales? I'm a lot of fun to play with! LOL

I should get teamspeak for my server.

Im sorry Cruncher, I didn't even read this entire thread so if Im off base let me know. The one part of your first post I saw and wanted to focus on.
(LET me make it clear Im not a Cruncher basher)

I was confused on the statement, "If we are allowed to disable..."

What does that mean, allowed to disable? Maybe you meant something else by that and I shouldnt take it so literally. I love scripting, I wish I could write more reactive scripts offensive and defensive. I have no time left in the day with enough brain cells atleast. I find the scripting part of the game interesting. There will always be those who wish to come in and do things the "lazy" way. Then within those few there will be some that realize that they have to learn something. ITS not scripts that are killing the game. Its laziness. The way games are played these days not alot of people have intrest in typing everything out by hand. Those days are far behind us. Just my view on it. I havent taken offense by anything you said just so you know, hope nothing I said offends your view either.

I have deleted this post at the request of the Moderator; it was reported and apparently hurt some fragile flower's feelings.

I apologise to anyone else that was traumatised.

Email me at deskavanagh@yahoo.com if you would like a copy of this grossly offensive post. It will be quite obvious whose feathers were ruffled.

Kavanagh.

I spent 20 minutes typing a script out the other day for verifying product on planets to keep ports upgrading....sure I could just look by hand but what the heck kind of fun is that... LOL

I do not write killer AFK script's, most of mine are typically the kind that keep me from doing the same crap over and over. Upgrading planets (scripted), building ports (scripted), building planets (scripted), selling product (scripted), buydown/mega (scripted), collect figs (scripted). So yea Lazy is my motivator, I am working on a idea now that does all those for me so I can login and it run so I can watch TV...

Oh and it takes skill to write scripts

I totally understand why many of you enjoy scripting. There are few if any games today that allow this level of player side input. And you're probably right, there are very few players active today who don't use some form of scripting or another.

The early reactive scripts were easy to beat manually, but I don't play this game to play against someone else's program. I think you're right about the laziness part. Today anyone can log into a game and allow their teammates to bot them. Some players enjoy botting their teammates. That takes a tremendous amount of concentration on the role of the botter. Those who write "team" scripts have put a LOT of time and effort into something that when done right, runs flawlessly. I've set-up Rammer's team SDT, that does require teammates at the keys to get started, or re-started. I've been botted with Boo, Inc's team SDT - this script is so amazing, all you need is one actual player at the keys. So one player orchestrating the whole team basically. That one player is the hero, the rest are bot drones...

If we had a switch that would turn off reactive scripts, it would be a switch for just that individual game, not the entire TWGS release. Kav is leaning towards an easy change that would mess with how TWX reads the dbase. That would be reactive script only. I'm leaning toward a switch to disable abort displays. That would mess with a great many TWX scripts, not just reactive. But would leave the 'utility" type scripts in tact. By utility I mean, trading, hauling, colonizing.

JP seems to think no matter what he tries to do, clever script writters will just find a work-around. He may be right, but I'm not done exploring other options. And, we never did finish our "MBBS mode" to mimic HVS MBBS's behaviours, which what all this fuss is ultimately about. When the game was at it's most popular, we were playing an entirely different game. That game had some serious bugs, and had lost support. JP to the rescue with TWGS, only TWGS is based on Gary's door version. HVS made a lot of changes to Gary's door version when it was converted to Multi-player for the MBBS platform. Many, including JP feel that HVS MBBS TW was much more balanced than this one. In the beginning, JP counted on me to advise him on the MBBS mode settings. We're not done yet. But, even if we do get a setting that disables reactive scripts, I've told JP I don't want that hard-wired into MBBS mode. It's much too late for that, a seperate toggle is all that's needed.

I don't feel Kaus is bashing me, he just likes to argue. It's all good.

Smooches!

Yeah, these kinds of scripts are "utility" type scripts. I do enjoy Toyman's scripts, but there are plenty of times I just want to sit and hit the keys and unwind at the end of the day. He laughs at me, I laugh at him, it's all good.

We were on teamspeak together a week or so ago, when I fired up Salesman for the first time. At first I was like.. OK, you got me! I love this script! But, in the end it netted 30M less than I get when I run that same farm myself.

Scripts only do what they are told to do, nothing more, nothing less. And unless you are the author, or have spent a great deal of time testing, you don't know what the optimal set-up is for a script like this is. I have an idea for another if\than statement to make this script better. I could ask T0yman to "fix" it for me. But, the point is, new and returning players who don't know better, think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread when they fire this up, are going to be beaten every time. Not just by reactive scripts, but by those with game knowledge.

Be patient. Follow the protocol John laid out. Do you remember what he said? I do. He said any Sysop could PM him about a feature or toggle and he and they would work it out. Why not try following that protocol? Why create controversy every time you bring this up?

I tried John's protocol, I PM'ed him, we discussed it, we came to a consensus, now I am just waiting for the implementation to test it out. Simple, easy, AND no controversy over a toggle only I might use. Actually, I expect the toggle will be used during truce on every truce game played. But that’s just my thinking.

SO, try following the protocol for requesting a toggle or a feature and see what happens. Unless the point is the controversy, not the toggle/feature.

H

I've discussed this with him in PM. Just not getting any younger I guess.

Or you thrive off controversy.



No you can't run rings around anything we can write. I'm wiling to "go-to town" to prove it to, you get your macros I get my scripts. Death match at a v2 server, if you won every time you wouldn't bitch about it.

And why must you use a derogatory term, "you twixie pixies" when discussing scripters. Am I lumped in with this crowd? Do you think I lack the ability to cognitively define scripts and use game mechanics to win? How have I turned TW into anything; I do not have the ability to influence effect and change except in my small sphere.

Your little temper tantrum of a post reeks of accusations, disrespect and hostility. None of which I have given you reason for in my posts. I find your term offensive, i don't call you a Mick do I?

Regarding Cruncher's bot, you don't get to decide what is or is not a valid script or set of scripts to not be a "twixie pixie". How do you know if she does or does not club baby seals? In the BooV.Boo there were two brand new returning players on my team. She used AFK torp's on them, does that count?

What does you writing script's have anything to do with my statement? Where are all those USENET post's you promised us of unsatisfied players demanding change?

This is getting Gilbertian - "Yes I can , No you can't, Yes I can".

I have ZERO interest in wasting my time digging up years of complaints from USENET about the adverse affect that TWX has had on TW2002. It should be a simple matter for you to do so, if it is of interest.

I never said that I would, au contraire.