View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:12 pm



Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice? 
Author Message
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1049
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Not sure where the no mega-corping/ honor among thieves thing originates from.

Mega-corping has been part of the game since original HHT and beyond. It's a fact of life, this entire thread reads as someone who needed a place to vent about losing. Also if your script is written poorly enough/people are not smart enough to deploy said script effectively to at a minimum density scan, you deserve your fate.

I still don't get why sysops choose to deploy games with truces, I get players flock to them because it lets builders build. But it's a false sense of security, makes it challenging to grid effectively and doesn't really offer any way for those players who need that blanket to get better.

There should in my opinion, always, be a risk to a reward. That is what made this game so great in the 90's, dialing in over phone, knowing you may get smoked by a player with better latency as you traded hours of your life away.

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:12 am
Profile ICQ
Ensign
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 203
Location: Virginia
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Kaus wrote:
Not sure where the no mega-corping/ honor among thieves thing originates from.

Mega-corping has been part of the game since original HHT and beyond. It's a fact of life, this entire thread reads as someone who needed a place to vent about losing.


This.

My philosophy is that any technique that is not in violation of the rules is and should be legal. And honor? The whole point is to mercilessly destroy your enemy. Blowing dock, haz in fedspace, buyouts, all of these things are perfectly acceptable if the game/server does not ban them - and all of them are used regularly, and have been used both by and against me (and most of us) many times.

Quote:
I still don't get why sysops choose to deploy games with truces, I get players flock to them because it lets builders build. But it's a false sense of security, makes it challenging to grid effectively and doesn't really offer any way for those players who need that blanket to get better.


It's not about allowing players to get better. I don't like truce games except for the fact that they allow skilled players to actually play against each other. In a non truce game, the first skilled player to log in after rebang will generally win it within 5-15 minutes. I'm not sure if you've played tradewars recently, but there are virtually no games anywhere that last longer than that without a truce. Someone gets in, ramps up, gets a super ship, and locks everyone else out while they capture all the resources. This can happen in as little as 3-5 minutes.

A truce means that you can have two or more skilled teams or players have a chance to get established and create a competitive game rather than a single player/single team game. The downside is that there are many ways to violate a truce, some of which are clear violations and others which are gray areas. Removing figs under someone who is twarp coloing is a favorite I've had used against me several times - "oops, I accidentally gridded in there, sorry!"

A truce relies on honor, and in this case, my team went out of our way to honor the truce - no cannons on anywhere despite the other team gridding in to our base at least twice during truce, and no tricks. We played the truce straight up. At the end, just hours before truce end, we started gridding, and accidentally gridded into someone's front door. What should have happened? Maybe they turn on IG, we get stuck there and xport out of the ship, lose a ship. Cannons on during truce is a CLEAR violation of the spirit of any truce game.

I don't care at this point because the game is over and my team won, but I find it ironic that I'm being lectured about honor.

Quote:
There should in my opinion, always, be a risk to a reward. That is what made this game so great in the 90's, dialing in over phone, knowing you may get smoked by a player with better latency as you traded hours of your life away.


This, 1000 times this. High risk, high reward is why I play tradewars, and it describes my style perfectly. I die a lot, and I have no problem with that, because I also win a lot. I'd rather die on my feet than lose sitting in a bubble running cannon setter scripts. We were presented with the latter scenario by an opponent, and took the appropriate steps, within the rules, to make sure that the game didn't end by attrition. Again, as stated before, I do not apologize for that.

By the way, Farley was the last on his team to go last night, and he died on his feet in a blaze of glory, not sitting in his bubble. It's no secret that he and I don't get along, but I have way more respect for him than I do for the guys in his group who cby'ed when things got tough, or for the guy who rage quit and then whined about it in a forum.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am
Profile ICQ
Lieutenant Commander
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Posts: 800
Location: Rural Indiana
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Shadow wrote:
Kaus wrote:
Not sure where the no mega-corping/ honor among thieves thing originates from.

Mega-corping has been part of the game since original HHT and beyond. It's a fact of life, this entire thread reads as someone who needed a place to vent about losing.


This.

My philosophy is that any technique that is not in violation of the rules is and should be legal. And honor? The whole point is to mercilessly destroy your enemy. Blowing dock, haz in fedspace, buyouts, all of these things are perfectly acceptable if the game/server does not ban them - and all of them are used regularly, and have been used both by and against me (and most of us) many times.

Quote:
I still don't get why sysops choose to deploy games with truces, I get players flock to them because it lets builders build. But it's a false sense of security, makes it challenging to grid effectively and doesn't really offer any way for those players who need that blanket to get better.


It's not about allowing players to get better. I don't like truce games except for the fact that they allow skilled players to actually play against each other. In a non truce game, the first skilled player to log in after rebang will generally win it within 5-15 minutes. I'm not sure if you've played tradewars recently, but there are virtually no games anywhere that last longer than that without a truce. Someone gets in, ramps up, gets a super ship, and locks everyone else out while they capture all the resources. This can happen in as little as 3-5 minutes.

A truce means that you can have two or more skilled teams or players have a chance to get established and create a competitive game rather than a single player/single team game. The downside is that there are many ways to violate a truce, some of which are clear violations and others which are gray areas. Removing figs under someone who is twarp coloing is a favorite I've had used against me several times - "oops, I accidentally gridded in there, sorry!"

A truce relies on honor, and in this case, my team went out of our way to honor the truce - no cannons on anywhere despite the other team gridding in to our base at least twice during truce, and no tricks. We played the truce straight up. At the end, just hours before truce end, we started gridding, and accidentally gridded into someone's front door. What should have happened? Maybe they turn on IG, we get stuck there and xport out of the ship, lose a ship. Cannons on during truce is a CLEAR violation of the spirit of any truce game.

I don't care at this point because the game is over and my team won, but I find it ironic that I'm being lectured about honor.

Quote:
There should in my opinion, always, be a risk to a reward. That is what made this game so great in the 90's, dialing in over phone, knowing you may get smoked by a player with better latency as you traded hours of your life away.


This, 1000 times this. High risk, high reward is why I play tradewars, and it describes my style perfectly. I die a lot, and I have no problem with that, because I also win a lot. I'd rather die on my feet than lose sitting in a bubble running cannon setter scripts. We were presented with the latter scenario by an opponent, and took the appropriate steps, within the rules, to make sure that the game didn't end by attrition. Again, as stated before, I do not apologize for that.

By the way, Farley was the last on his team to go last night, and he died on his feet in a blaze of glory, not sitting in his bubble. It's no secret that he and I don't get along, but I have way more respect for him than I do for the guys in his group who cby'ed when things got tough, or for the guy who rage quit and then whined about it in a forum.


I agree with everything Shadow has said as he laid out the main reasons we run truce games.(thanks for saving me from typing it). I will say this Shadow is/was one of the players who would go in and lock down games in the 1st 20mins. and IS the biggest reason I started doing them.

The other thing shadow commented on that I want to bring up is this: I did not make a rule about mega corping. mainly for all the reasons that have already been talked about. Impossible to enforce ect... I also didn't make a rule about no cannons on during truce. So since if there was no rule about either how is breaking one a violation of the "spirit" truce and not the other??? I did make a rule about truce protected bases. and that rule in the case was clearly broken.

sk

_________________
Star Killer
USA(RETIRED)
Proud Member of Killbillies & Cloud09 Perma Corps
Loyalty Above All Else Except Honor
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
2015 Lottery Tournament Winning Team Member
2016 Big Game Draft Tournament Winning Team Member
HHT 2016 Champs: Cloud09
Retired From Active Play 2017
Returned To Active Play 2018

Star Killer's Ice9 TWGS
The Sprawl V1 TWGS
Website: http://sk-twgs.com
TeamSpeak 3 Server: ts3server://sk-twgs.com
Email: starkillerstwgs@yahoo.com
ICQ: 693542389
Ice 9 V2 TWGS: SK-TWGS.COM PORT 2002
The Sprawl V1 TWGS: THESPRAWL.CA PORT 2002
Now The Fastest TWGS in the West
https://www.facebook.com/StarKillersTradeWars/


Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:47 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 3771
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Astrochimp wrote:

Is this just standard practice now? If it is, you guys are really hammering the last nail into the coffin of this community. Why would anyone play if they always get outnumbered and thus never have any hope of winning?


Yeah, pretty much. SK does a good job but there will always be those who will play to win at all costs. Rules that cannot be governed by the game settings are nearly impossible to enforce.

_________________
Image
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team
2018 HHT Champs: Rock Stars


Classic Style Games Here:
telnet://Cruncherstw.no-ip.biz:2002

Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155 ... adewar.htm
Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com
E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW


Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:19 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 1387
Location: Boo! inc. Ireland
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Kaus wrote:
Not sure where the no mega-corping/ honor among thieves thing originates from.

Mega-corping has been part of the game since original HHT and beyond. It's a fact of life, this entire thread reads as someone who needed a place to vent about losing. Also if your script is written poorly enough/people are not smart enough to deploy said script effectively to at a minimum density scan, you deserve your fate.

I still don't get why sysops choose to deploy games with truces, I get players flock to them because it lets builders build. But it's a false sense of security, makes it challenging to grid effectively and doesn't really offer any way for those players who need that blanket to get better.

There should in my opinion, always, be a risk to a reward. That is what made this game so great in the 90's, dialing in over phone, knowing you may get smoked by a player with better latency as you traded hours of your life away.


As you posted, megacorping predates HHT. Immediately before TWGS, MBBS TW2002 game was HVS. I cannot remember exactly the mixed red/blue corp member exp penalty, but it was substantial - I think everyone on the corp went to zero exp at Extern.

Factor in that Megarob was a bug not widely known. Also, overbidding not known to many who actually knew about megarob. Result? A megacorp: One redcorp, one bluecorp; reds were useless if the corp was mixed.

The reds cashed, the blues built the cits. The bubble was split. The door and most sectors were usually red. In back of the front defense sectors, figs were tolls and planets cold cannons. Figs transferred usual way, etc.

It kind of led to a general "who cares" about megacorping, even outside the above context.


Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:06 pm
Profile
Chief Warrant Officer

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 157
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Wait... Mega-corping is wrong?

This si the sole reason I crank up the Galactic Bank limits.

_________________
The New Order
24.211.122.98:2002

MicroBlaster:
http://www.microblaster.net/ServerDetai ... erverid=66

One day, the entire Tradewars 2002 fanbase will tremble at the mere mention of "Lionmane." Too bad it's not my name!?!?! -Krovach


Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:45 pm
Profile
Commander
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:00 am
Posts: 1244
Location: Canada
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Cruncher wrote:
Yeah, pretty much. SK does a good job but there will always be those who will play to win at all costs. Rules that cannot be governed by the game settings are nearly impossible to enforce.

Wining at all costs?? ... lol. I once rented a server from the same company a certain TWGS owner was hosting a tournament from to increase my Ping. Was that bad?

Truth be told, Locking out new player once Truce ended would have put the kiabosh on the entire issue.

I maintain that the Edit is unbalanced. Not sure I will ever partake of another potential grudge match.

_________________
----------------------------
-= QUANTUM Computing 101: 15 = 3 x 5 ... 48% of the time.
-= There are 10 types of people in the world: Those that understand Binary and those who do not
-= If Oil is made from Dinosaurs, and Plastic is made from Oil... are plastic Dinosaurs made from real Dinosaurs?


Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:26 pm
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Lieutenant Commander
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Posts: 800
Location: Rural Indiana
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
LoneStar wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
Yeah, pretty much. SK does a good job but there will always be those who will play to win at all costs. Rules that cannot be governed by the game settings are nearly impossible to enforce.

Wining at all costs?? ... lol. I once rented a server from the same company a certain TWGS owner was hosting a tournament from to increase my Ping. Was that bad?

Truth be told, Locking out new player once Truce ended would have put the kiabosh on the entire issue.

I maintain that the Edit is unbalanced. Not sure I will ever partake of another potential grudge match.


The only edits ive ever had these kind of issues with and felt the need to run a truce game on where the high turn/unlim edits. SubZero Star Trek etc...

Note to LS: thats why i normally dont give out where im hosting at, tho it is pretty easy to find out lol

_________________
Star Killer
USA(RETIRED)
Proud Member of Killbillies & Cloud09 Perma Corps
Loyalty Above All Else Except Honor
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
2015 Lottery Tournament Winning Team Member
2016 Big Game Draft Tournament Winning Team Member
HHT 2016 Champs: Cloud09
Retired From Active Play 2017
Returned To Active Play 2018

Star Killer's Ice9 TWGS
The Sprawl V1 TWGS
Website: http://sk-twgs.com
TeamSpeak 3 Server: ts3server://sk-twgs.com
Email: starkillerstwgs@yahoo.com
ICQ: 693542389
Ice 9 V2 TWGS: SK-TWGS.COM PORT 2002
The Sprawl V1 TWGS: THESPRAWL.CA PORT 2002
Now The Fastest TWGS in the West
https://www.facebook.com/StarKillersTradeWars/


Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:35 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 2067
Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Lionmane wrote:
Wait... Mega-corping is wrong?

This is the sole reason I crank up the Galactic Bank limits.

Not in my book.
Tradewars gameplay was based, at elast in part, on Risk. Tell me you ever played a game of Risk where the other players didn't gang up on you!

_________________
Regards,
Micro

Website: http://www.microblaster.net
TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
TeamSpeak3: ts.microblaster.net:9987

Do not try and bend the spoon. That’s impossible.
Instead… only try to realize there is no spoon.


Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:25 am
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Ambassador

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 1387
Location: Boo! inc. Ireland
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Micro wrote:
Lionmane wrote:
Wait... Mega-corping is wrong?

This is the sole reason I crank up the Galactic Bank limits.

Not in my book.
Tradewars gameplay was based, at elast in part, on Risk. Tell me you ever played a game of Risk where the other players didn't gang up on you!


Brings back memories, used play Risk in the 60's, loved it, and yes, frequently half the board would temporarily unite against the strongest player.

Reminds me - there was also a DOS based game called Galactic Conquest, similar to Risk. GALCON.EXE. Can't find it anywhere.


Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:13 am
Profile
Ensign
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 203
Location: Virginia
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
LoneStar wrote:
I maintain that the Edit is unbalanced. Not sure I will ever partake of another potential grudge match.


But grudge matches are fun! Admit it. :)

_________________
Image


Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:28 am
Profile ICQ
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 3771
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
LoneStar wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
Yeah, pretty much. SK does a good job but there will always be those who will play to win at all costs. Rules that cannot be governed by the game settings are nearly impossible to enforce.

Wining at all costs?? ... lol. I once rented a server from the same company a certain TWGS owner was hosting a tournament from to increase my Ping. Was that bad?

Truth be told, Locking out new player once Truce ended would have put the kiabosh on the entire issue.

I maintain that the Edit is unbalanced. Not sure I will ever partake of another potential grudge match.


That's why I run v2 with the ping limit setting. No matter your actual ping, everyone plays at a minimum of 150.

_________________
Image
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team
2018 HHT Champs: Rock Stars


Classic Style Games Here:
telnet://Cruncherstw.no-ip.biz:2002

Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155 ... adewar.htm
Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com
E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW


Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:55 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 3771
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Kavanagh wrote:

As you posted, megacorping predates HHT. Immediately before TWGS, MBBS TW2002 game was HVS. I cannot remember exactly the mixed red/blue corp member exp penalty, but it was substantial - I think everyone on the corp went to zero exp at Extern.

Factor in that Megarob was a bug not widely known. Also, overbidding not known to many who actually knew about megarob. Result? A megacorp: One redcorp, one bluecorp; reds were useless if the corp was mixed.

The reds cashed, the blues built the cits. The bubble was split. The door and most sectors were usually red. In back of the front defense sectors, figs were tolls and planets cold cannons. Figs transferred usual way, etc.

It kind of led to a general "who cares" about megacorping, even outside the above context.


Yeah, that was very challenging, but we did it. Like Kav said, that was pre-mega rob. Today manipulating exp. and alignment is as easy as changing your socks. :lol:

_________________
Image
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team
2018 HHT Champs: Rock Stars


Classic Style Games Here:
telnet://Cruncherstw.no-ip.biz:2002

Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155 ... adewar.htm
Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com
E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW


Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:58 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Lieutenant Commander
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 11:28 pm
Posts: 800
Location: Rural Indiana
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Cruncher wrote:
LoneStar wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
Yeah, pretty much. SK does a good job but there will always be those who will play to win at all costs. Rules that cannot be governed by the game settings are nearly impossible to enforce.

Wining at all costs?? ... lol. I once rented a server from the same company a certain TWGS owner was hosting a tournament from to increase my Ping. Was that bad?

Truth be told, Locking out new player once Truce ended would have put the kiabosh on the entire issue.

I maintain that the Edit is unbalanced. Not sure I will ever partake of another potential grudge match.


That's why I run v2 with the ping limit setting. No matter your actual ping, everyone plays at a minimum of 150.


I run a V2. But even still there are ways around it.


sk

_________________
Star Killer
USA(RETIRED)
Proud Member of Killbillies & Cloud09 Perma Corps
Loyalty Above All Else Except Honor
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
2015 Lottery Tournament Winning Team Member
2016 Big Game Draft Tournament Winning Team Member
HHT 2016 Champs: Cloud09
Retired From Active Play 2017
Returned To Active Play 2018

Star Killer's Ice9 TWGS
The Sprawl V1 TWGS
Website: http://sk-twgs.com
TeamSpeak 3 Server: ts3server://sk-twgs.com
Email: starkillerstwgs@yahoo.com
ICQ: 693542389
Ice 9 V2 TWGS: SK-TWGS.COM PORT 2002
The Sprawl V1 TWGS: THESPRAWL.CA PORT 2002
Now The Fastest TWGS in the West
https://www.facebook.com/StarKillersTradeWars/


Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:28 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 3771
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Megacorping and outnumbering standard practice?
Cruncher wrote:
sk wrote:

That's why I run v2 with the ping limit setting. No matter your actual ping, everyone plays at a minimum of 150.


Not true. there are ways around it.

sk


Well, that sucks...

_________________
Image
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team
2018 HHT Champs: Rock Stars


Classic Style Games Here:
telnet://Cruncherstw.no-ip.biz:2002

Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155 ... adewar.htm
Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com
E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW


Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:30 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.