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Fair Play Initiative
http://classictw.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35323		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Deign [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
There will always be ways to defraud the system. The idea is to make the cost of fraud exceed the benefit.

Also, as pointed out earlier, the sudden appearance of a team of players with newly issued certificates would be suspicious, and suspicious activity is one of the primary ways of fraud detection.

Another advantage of the certificate is that you can play under whatever handle you want, the certificate is what identifies you.
Author:  Micro [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Deign wrote:
There will always be ways to defraud the system. The idea is to make the cost of fraud exceed the benefit.

Which brings us back to proxy use. If I ban players for using any form proxy (VPN, VPS, Game Accelerators, etc...), I increase that cost.

No, I can't catch everyone, but neither can the police. There will always be cheaters and speeders. If you use a radar detector, in some states your going to get two tickets. If you use a proxy to dupe, you are going to get banned.
Author:  Helix [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
So proxy = duping? If you say so.

H
Author:  Deign [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
That's not the way I heard it, certainly not the only approach. If he sees someone using a proxy, he can check it out. Maybe the guy has a legitimate reason and everything seems ok. But if a game has several players using proxies, maybe 5 on a team of 6, that suggests something different. It's all up to the sysop. It's his server, he can have whatever rules he wants, he can enforce them any way he wants. But there are some very capable sysops who seem to want to run good games and I think they would attract the players looking for that. The rest of them would be full of the kind of people nobody wants to play against anyway. You know, the kind of players who try to tell sysops the opposite, that if they try to have rules all their players would leave.
Author:  Vid Kid [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
After going to classictw.com serveral times .. I conclude v2.21 does not have
the ability to turn tw-passport on.
That version is the same one Cruncher is running.

Therefore it must be version 2.22 that has that feature.

Vid


Micro wrote:
JP already wrote this.. It is in the unreleased 2.21 beta...

The problem is that you only need a fake email address to create a fake account on classic. Yes, we had all these discussions seven years ago, but it is fun to rehash them.

As Shadow mentioned in another thread, the only way I can confirm your identity is with a credit card. Then I can validate your real name and current billing address. You can easily change your billing address though and claim do be someone else with the same name, or just use a friends credit card number. If you have friends and family, I have no way to prove they are not real tradewars players. I could even do a voice validation, and you could coach them enough to convince me they just started playing and you are teaching them the ropes.

It is still not a bad idea though, because your Classic TW account can build a reputation in the community. Just click on the board index and you can see what your "TW Passport ID" is.
Author:  Hammer_2 [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Are Sysops actually seeing cheating?

In the last few years when I played a lot I don't think I saw dupes/cheating.

If they were cheating they were really bad at it. Except for perhaps the odd super blatant, rinse and repeat versions.

I can recall being accused cheating a couple of times by out playing noobs to a point they couldn't understand. So I'd be careful that people aren't accusing others of cheating and just having no idea of whats happening.

Once again, even team numbers and move on. Make sure there is a real person to our best ability to each player. After that you've got no chance. I've played with most major corps in the last few years. Every single one of them has pushed the boundaries on Bot'ing someone vs them just being their dupe.
Author:  Micro [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Hammer_2 wrote:
Are Sysops actually seeing cheating?

Well, we really weren't seeing any dupes... Until Helix was banned...
Author:  Helix [ Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Listen to yourself I can hardly be duping if I am banned.
Author:  Star Killer [ Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Helix wrote:
Listen to yourself I can hardly be duping if I am banned.


LOL!


sk
Author:  Cruncher [ Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Vid Kid wrote:
After going to classictw.com serveral times .. I conclude v2.21 does not have
the ability to turn tw-passport on.
That version is the same one Cruncher is running.

Therefore it must be version 2.22 that has that feature.

Vid


Micro wrote:
JP already wrote this.. It is in the unreleased 2.21 beta...

The problem is that you only need a fake email address to create a fake account on classic. Yes, we had all these discussions seven years ago, but it is fun to rehash them.

As Shadow mentioned in another thread, the only way I can confirm your identity is with a credit card. Then I can validate your real name and current billing address. You can easily change your billing address though and claim do be someone else with the same name, or just use a friends credit card number. If you have friends and family, I have no way to prove they are not real tradewars players. I could even do a voice validation, and you could coach them enough to convince me they just started playing and you are teaching them the ropes.

It is still not a bad idea though, because your Classic TW account can build a reputation in the community. Just click on the board index and you can see what your "TW Passport ID" is.


I had to back down from the unreleased 2.21 beta, it didn't play nice with Win10. Too bad too, that one had the flash client. Believe it or not, I did have players getting hooked on TW again using the flash client. Muahahahaha....
Author:  Micro [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
I am developing a tool called tradewars dashboard to help GameOps manage their servers. Eventually this will be a replacement for your command center. You will be able to rebang games, edit game settings, schedule admin scripts, but my first priority was dupe and fraud detection.

Dashboard scans your log files and detects duplicate accounts in all of your games. Then it uses two fraud detection services to detect proxies, vpn, tor, vps, etc... Next on my list is email notification, so you will know about a potential dupe right away!

So I started writing this thing on Friday, and on Sunday I ran it on my live server. It reported that Jack was using a proxy server. Jack was playing as Sin in a previous game, so I was very suspicious, but decided proxy use was not sufficient evidence of a dupe to ban him. As you can see in the image below, Jack forgot to connect with his proxy and connected with the same IP address as Roland (The real player). BUSTED!!!

BTW... Roland / Jack / Sin whoever you are, you are BANNED!!!

Attachments:
Busted.png
Busted.png [ 79.68 KiB | Viewed 7818 times ]
Author:  Oso [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Proxy/VPN does not mean duping. If I am on the train and using the open wifi, there is no way on earth I am not going to use VPN when I use the internet.
Author:  Micro [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Oso wrote:
Proxy/VPN does not mean duping. If I am on the train and using the open wifi, there is no way on earth I am not going to use VPN when I use the internet.

I agree, but if you are a new user I have never seen before, and you are using a Proxy / VPN / etc... Then I am going to be suspicious. I wouldn't have banned Jack just for using a proxy, but he messed up and logged in from the same IP as Roland. Then he immediately disconnected and logged back in with the proxy.

I really wish JP had finished TW-Passport.
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Micro wrote:
I am developing a tool called tradewars dashboard to help GameOps manage their servers. Eventually this will be a replacement for your command center. You will be able to rebang games, edit game settings, schedule admin scripts, but my first priority was dupe and fraud detection.

....

BTW... Roland / Jack / Sin whoever you are, you are BANNED!!!


Oh, I so want this! Good job Micro!

When I first opened my server, anticipating trouble I keep a spreadsheet with all the user/game names and IP's.

You wrote this in 3 days, I'm impressed!
Author:  Lionmane [ Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair Play Initiative
Hammer_2 wrote:
Are Sysops actually seeing cheating?

I can recall being accused cheating a couple of times by out playing noobs to a point they couldn't understand. So I'd be careful that people aren't accusing others of cheating and just having no idea of whats happening.


I've seen strong evidence of duping. I didn't ban the perp, I just deleted the duped accounts and left the assets alone. Later the person said their brother was logging in, too. Naturally, that didn't account for the 12 accounts I had deleted the first time "they" tried it. After that, I let it ride when "they" brought it down to two accounts.

I don't like cheating, but there are so few players left that banning is no longer a good solution. This also means that many duping players are *still* playing alone.
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