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Public vs Private Scripts
http://classictw.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35726
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Author:  Micro [ Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Public vs Private Scripts

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Author:  Hammer_2 [ Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

I keep WANTING to give away my private scripts but then I think, if I play a tournament, it'll be so much harder to win :)

It's not even because some of them are hard to write, it's more that other people just don't know the technique/secret/efficiency. Which is ridiculous in a game this age yet somethings aren't the 'norm'.

Even this one, and I've told nearly EVERYONE I've played with: When colonizing in a low turn ship, with high holds, it's more efficient to pick up ore every 2 3 laps when Twarp colo'ing close to Terra. This I'm fairly sure is in the public Mombot now (>colo s b f) . Depending on settings it'll give you 5-10% more colonists for your turns. Apply compound interest over the game, you'll have an advantage. Maybe some don't think it matters - but if I give you an extra 10% turns, would you take it?

Think about it, it's just colonizing, yet I don't think I've seen a public script that does it?? And it applies to a gazillion edits.

I've got the same for PPT in low turn games, I'm blown away no one does the technique I've used in recent tournaments.

Moo script - been meaning to release that minus one little trick - I'll just give up the source on that one as someone will decompile it anyway :)

and so on..

I want to give them away.. but I also want to win :(

Author:  Micro [ Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

Hammer_2 wrote:
This I'm fairly sure is in the public Mombot now (>colo s b f) .
Nope, the colo in Mombot Public is the one MD wrote 10+ years ago. The new version is still Private.

Code:
    colo [s/m/t] {misc} {t/b} {c:x}

     - [s/m/t] = [s]peed/[m]ilk/[t]imed
       speed = cycles - cycles to grab colos (default max)
       milk  = min colos - min colos before grab (default 0)
       timed = delay  - time to wait each cycle (default 15 seconds)
     - [misc]  = cycles/min colos/delay
     - [t/b]   = [t]warp/[b]warp  (default is twarp)
     - [c:x]   = [c]amo holds (example: c:3 adds 3 holds extra fuel)


Hammer_2 wrote:
I want to give them away.. but I also want to win :(
No one expects you to give them away, but at the same time, no one wants to play against you. You spent a lot of time writing them, and also learning how to make them more efficient. If you can defend your grid, then this becomes a game of efficiency where every single turn counts.

That being said, efficiency does not matter if your opponent can take your grid and prevent you from cashing or colonizing.

Author:  Comet [ Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

Hammer_2 wrote:
I keep WANTING to give away my private scripts but then I think, if I play a tournament, it'll be so much harder to win :)

It's not even because some of them are hard to write, it's more that other people just don't know the technique/secret/efficiency. Which is ridiculous in a game this age yet somethings aren't the 'norm'.

Even this one, and I've told nearly EVERYONE I've played with: When colonizing in a low turn ship, with high holds, it's more efficient to pick up ore every 2 3 laps when Twarp colo'ing close to Terra. This I'm fairly sure is in the public Mombot now (>colo s b f) . Depending on settings it'll give you 5-10% more colonists for your turns. Apply compound interest over the game, you'll have an advantage. Maybe some don't think it matters - but if I give you an extra 10% turns, would you take it?

Think about it, it's just colonizing, yet I don't think I've seen a public script that does it?? And it applies to a gazillion edits.

I've got the same for PPT in low turn games, I'm blown away no one does the technique I've used in recent tournaments.

Moo script - been meaning to release that minus one little trick - I'll just give up the source on that one as someone will decompile it anyway :)

and so on..

I want to give them away.. but I also want to win :(



i'll take em :)

Author:  Shadow [ Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

Hammer_2 wrote:
I keep WANTING to give away my private scripts but then I think, if I play a tournament, it'll be so much harder to win :)

It's not even because some of them are hard to write, it's more that other people just don't know the technique/secret/efficiency. Which is ridiculous in a game this age yet somethings aren't the 'norm'.


Yep, this. There are actually a rather surprising number of non-programmers out there, though nearly all of the serious/dangerous players write code. But as you note, writing the code is not the hard part; it is identifying the most efficient way to do something, and identifying new strategies/techniques that can give you an advantage. Some of the physics of the game are still relatively unknown to most.

Hammer_2 wrote:
Even this one, and I've told nearly EVERYONE I've played with: When colonizing in a low turn ship, with high holds, it's more efficient to pick up ore every 2 3 laps when Twarp colo'ing close to Terra. This I'm fairly sure is in the public Mombot now (>colo s b f) . Depending on settings it'll give you 5-10% more colonists for your turns. Apply compound interest over the game, you'll have an advantage. Maybe some don't think it matters - but if I give you an extra 10% turns, would you take it?

Think about it, it's just colonizing, yet I don't think I've seen a public script that does it?? And it applies to a gazillion edits.


I still have what I think is your first version of that, from the EMC script pack way back in maybe 2015? When we actually played together on the same corp. :). It's part of my colo script now, along with some other changes; in fact, I think I tweaked your algorithm a bit more, but the concept is the same.

Hammer_2 wrote:
I've got the same for PPT in low turn games, I'm blown away no one does the technique I've used in recent tournaments.


Never say "no one" :). I suspect we do a lot of the same things. All of my cashing scripts are custom (private) and vastly more effective than the mombot public ones. ppt, sst, sdt, ssm, rtr - they are all improved. The very common wsst from mombot, while an okay script, is horribly inefficient - maybe less important in an unlim, but mine is both much faster in an unlim and much more turn efficient/safer in a turn game (no more mowing, can use a blue to twarp furb the red running wsst).

Hammer_2 wrote:
Moo script - been meaning to release that minus one little trick - I'll just give up the source on that one as someone will decompile it anyway :)


I might resemble that remark :)

Though honestly, I would only decompile yours to see if there is anything interesting - my moo script is near perfect at this point.

Hammer_2 wrote:
I want to give them away.. but I also want to win :(


This is the constant dilemma we all face...

If I truly don't come back to playing, I will eventually give everything away. Right now I am holding off in case I get interested again at some point. Though I have to say, I don't miss it.

Author:  Shadow [ Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

Micro wrote:
Hammer_2 wrote:
I want to give them away.. but I also want to win :(
No one expects you to give them away, but at the same time, no one wants to play against you. You spent a lot of time writing them, and also learning how to make them more efficient. If you can defend your grid, then this becomes a game of efficiency where every single turn counts.

That being said, efficiency does not matter if your opponent can take your grid and prevent you from cashing or colonizing.

[/quote]

Grid is nice, but overrated. The only thing stopping me from taking all the grid away from pretty much anyone, and never getting hit by a foton or anything else, is ping times and latency settings. If latency is less than move delay, it's impossible to grid; if it is more than move delay, it's impossible to stop me from gridding. When they are the same, and everyone has the same ping times, then it gets more interesting and complex, but I have yet to play in a game where I couldn't grid nearly at will with my newest scripts.

The only thing that can make gridding harder is probing and fotoning based on ports being covered. I have a really effective cim-foton script now - only checks CIM on known uncovered ports adjacent to enemy figs or unfigged sectors, so it's fast. Probably the same technique you (Hammer) are using, based on what I've observed.

Author:  LoCuTiS [ Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

The only reason I started streaming my deathmatches was to show people that with a brain you can do as much as you allow yourself to do with public scripts. Hell you can even do things with macros that make people wonder what script it was. When it comes down to the grid wars games that require private scripts it is such a snooze fest you are better off quitting the game then devoting that much time. Honestly it would be better for your health to do heroin than get involved in those sht games.

Author:  Shadow [ Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

LoCuTiS wrote:
The only reason I started streaming my deathmatches was to show people that with a brain you can do as much as you allow yourself to do with public scripts. Hell you can even do things with macros that make people wonder what script it was. When it comes down to the grid wars games that require private scripts it is such a snooze fest you are better off quitting the game then devoting that much time. Honestly it would be better for your health to do heroin than get involved in those sht games.


The only reason I never started streaming my deathmatches against you is because I always lost them :)

Loc is hard core - "screw the laser guided, computer controlled ICBM. Give me a hammer, imma go kill some a$$holes."

It's a good point, though - scripts aren't really what ruined tradewars, bubble hugging and firing fotons while waiting for a game to time out is what ruined tradewars. I'd be more interested in playing tournaments if they had a time limit of 7 days, low number of sectors (5k?), high turns, and fotons were either disabled or exorbitantly expensive. Force people to move around and actually play the game instead of hiding while running other people's scripts all day.

Author:  Hammer_2 [ Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

No photon games are definitely the ones I've had the most fun in of late. As I suggested once to you, I'd also be keen for a game with a 2-4 hour window each day for people to play in. All the same time.. would be an interesting experiment.

I don't agree that "bubble hugging and firing fotons while waiting for a game to time out is what ruined tradewars." is completely the reason. It's often the edit setup that allows that. If some games were better balanced to stop the ability to do this, then I'm be totally ok to play for 30 days.

I've won HHTs that have gone 20+ days. Now, It was a grind, but I gridded and hunted people down. The edit did not allow for them to just set up shop and defend a door.

However, i also agree that a game that goes for 20 plus days probably requires a unhealthy time commitment which may have also ruined the game.. Like Loc said, but I've never taken Heroin to do a true comparison.

Author:  Cruncher [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

Hammer_2 wrote:
However, i also agree that a game that goes for 20 plus days probably requires a unhealthy time commitment which may have also ruined the game.. Like Loc said, but I've never taken Heroin to do a true comparison.


Yeah, exactly the reason why I run a 6 hour time limit on my server. Games can run for weeks, but it's not all consuming.

Author:  Madam Airlock [ Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Public vs Private Scripts

[quote="LoCuTiS"]The only reason I started streaming my deathmatches was to show people that with a brain you can do as much as you allow yourself to do with public scripts. Hell you can even do things with macros that make people wonder what script it was. When it comes down to the grid wars games that require private scripts it is such a snooze fest you are better off quitting the game then devoting that much time. Honestly it would be better for your health to do heroin than get involved in those sht games.[/quote]

It is good for the game to be accessible.

But after 20+ years of scripting being basically the only way to not only survive - but to also thrive - I think most of the teeny community we have left understands that if you want to not just play, but you also want to win, you need to know how to code. Or at the very least have someone on your corp who does.

At this point, public scripts are a jumping off point to give you ideas, not an endpoint that anyone should be using as their toolkit.

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