View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:43 am



Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
 Possible photon related bug 
Author Message
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1044
Location: USA
Unread post Possible photon related bug
John,

Likely because of the timing in v2 it is now possible for a player to preflood a sector with a photon. To elaborate, if a player photons in response to a limpet message the invading player will skip the fig prompt. Previous to V2 photons were not fast enough to have this be a reality.

I.e.
Player moves into sector
Enemy recieves limp message and fotons in response
Player lands at sector prompt instead of fig prompt.

PreV2
Player would land at Fig prompt and could retreat off figs. While limp messages have allways been processed first it was never possible to foton a player under the enemy figs. Ill upload a log later tonight, im at 35k feet atm.

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:18 pm
Profile ICQ
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm
Posts: 2054
Location: Oklahoma
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
If I hit a limpet and you fired a foton before I actually hit the fig prompt due to timing why would I see a fig prompt?
Reason: If I fired a foton in a sector with figs and moved I would go under the figs so shouldn't this be correct. Now if I was at the fig prompt and then got the foton message and ended up at the sector prompt without attacking then that would be incorrect.

I tested using limpet's as well and got same results as below. I never could get in fast enough to beat the other but I am playing both local so no telling.
Tested on my server using TWGS 2.20b

<Move>
Warping to Sector 433

Sector : 433 in uncharted space (unexplored).
Ports : Runnymede Outpost, Class 2 (BSB)
Fighters: 1 (belong to Corp#4, Scripters) [Defensive]
Warps to Sector(s) : 16019 - (27866)

You have to destroy the fighters to remain in this sector.

Your fighters: 2,500 vs. theirs: 1
TinkerToy launched a P-Missile in sector 433 damaging your ship.
Photon Wave Duration : 2 seconds in sector 433
Photon Wave Duration has ended in sector 433

Option? (A,D,I,R,S,?):? A
<Attack>
How many fighters do you wish to use (0 to 500) [0]? 200
You lost 2 fighter(s)
You destroyed 1 enemy fighters.
You destroyed all the fighters.

Sector : 433 in uncharted space.
Ports : Runnymede Outpost, Class 2 (BSB)
Warps to Sector(s) : 16019 - (27866)

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[433] (?=Help)? :

_________________
T0yman
Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.


Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:46 pm
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1044
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
John here are the logs, at Micros server 2.20b I believe. This has happened to most of our corp (4of 6 players) with varying pings. The log represents me trying to figure out what actually was happening and why my corpies were dieing to a macro that shoulda put them at figs to retreat from.

Code:
Sector  : 18046 in uncharted space.
Planets : (H) See You Soon:)
Ships   : Rider [Owned by] EMP [2], w/ 39,998 ftrs,
           (Provornyy Privateer)
          yo [Owned by] EMP [2], w/ 10 ftrs,
           (AldenShrike Port Siege)
Fighters: 20,011 (belong to your Corp) [Defensive]
Mines   : 250 (Type 1 Armid) (belong to your Corp)
        : 15 (Type 2 Limpet) (belong to your Corp)
Warps to Sector(s) :  4440 - 12533 - 17013

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[18046] (?=Help)? : M
<Move>
Warps to Sector(s) :  4440 - 12533 - 17013
To which Sector ? 12533


ÛÛÛÛ WARNING! WARNING! Space Debris/Asteroids narrowly avoided! ÛÛÛÛ
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 2095 battle points!
Your ship's shields absorb the brunt of the explosion!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 2028 battle points!
123 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 2164 battle points!
2164 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 1803 battle points!
1803 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 1106 battle points!
1106 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 1391 battle points!
1391 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 2609 battle points!
2609 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
Quasar Blast!
The console reports damages of 2409 battle points!
2409 K3-A Fighters destroyed by the blast!
[Pause]

mob launched a P-Missile in sector 12533 damaging your ship.
Photon Wave Duration : 3 seconds in sector 12533

[Pause]

Sector  : 12533 in uncharted space.
Ports   : ., Class 7 (SSS)
Planets : <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) .. >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
          <<<< (U) . >>>> (Shielded)
Fighters: 300,910 (belong to Corp#1, p) [Defensive]
NavHaz  : 4% (Space Debris/Asteroids)
Warps to Sector(s) :  (5316) - 16119 - 18046

Photon residue detected!  Estimated duration 3 seconds.

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[12533] (?=Help)? : A
<Attack>
There is nothing here to attack.

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[12533] (?=Help)? :
Photon Wave Duration has ended in sector 12533

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[12533] (?=Help)? : D
<Re-Display>

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:20 pm
Profile ICQ
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 3367
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
Kaus wrote:
John here are the logs, at Micros server 2.20b I believe. This has happened to most of our corp (4of 6 players) with varying pings. The log represents me trying to figure out what actually was happening and why my corpies were dieing to a macro that shoulda put them at figs to retreat from.

What was the macro?
H

_________________
Helix
Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars.
Getting (re)started in TradeWars? Time to update the package, its been 3 years.
Lest we forget


Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:40 pm
Profile WWW
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1044
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
Helix wrote:
Kaus wrote:
John here are the logs, at Micros server 2.20b I believe. This has happened to most of our corp (4of 6 players) with varying pings. The log represents me trying to figure out what actually was happening and why my corpies were dieing to a macro that shoulda put them at figs to retreat from.

What was the macro?
H


Enemy had 500k figs in sector, has been turtling and ship we use is 2:1 offensive odds. There are 6-8 planets all hold max 100k ore, and on average are set for a 6k sector shot per planet when full. Pirates Edit.
Code:
m12533***a50000***a50000***a50000***a50000***a50000*rrrrL(planet #*)


I'm positive this is due to the new timings. The progression from my experience which was all by hand works something like this:

1) Player Chooses to move
2) Player enters sector
3) Limpet qued/Mines/Figs
4) On limpet photon fired, player has not resolved messages and has not made it to fig prompt yet
5) Player falls under enemy figs due to photon saturation in the area
6) Enemy profits... Again this has happened to 4/6 of my corpies in this game/@ this server.

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:13 am
Profile ICQ
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am
Posts: 3150
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
This could be related to timings, but it could also just be a bug related to prompt processing, so I'd like to explore it a bit before deciding how to fix it. I definitely do not want photon timing to be faster than it has been. I wonder if there's a way to measure the turn-around time between a player entering a sector and the photon wave hitting that sector and comparing between the two versions. What you're describing here isn't conclusive evidence of a timing difference because there are other reasons this could be happening.

There is an optional delay for photon timing (two, actually), but they're zero by default, so there currently is no delay on firing a photon by default. So it's definitely likely that photon firing is much faster today than it was on v1 just because of optimizations in the processing of IO. So there probably should be some kind of baseline delay here, in addition to the configurable one. The question is, how much? Getting a measure of the typical time to photon on v1 would be a good start.

_________________
John Pritchett
EIS
---
Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.


Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:43 am
Profile WWW
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1044
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
John Pritchett wrote:
This could be related to timings, but it could also just be a bug related to prompt processing, so I'd like to explore it a bit before deciding how to fix it. I definitely do not want photon timing to be faster than it has been. I wonder if there's a way to measure the turn-around time between a player entering a sector and the photon wave hitting that sector and comparing between the two versions. What you're describing here isn't conclusive evidence of a timing difference because there are other reasons this could be happening.

There is an optional delay for photon timing (two, actually), but they're zero by default, so there currently is no delay on firing a photon by default. So it's definitely likely that photon firing is much faster today than it was on v1 just because of optimizations in the processing of IO. So there probably should be some kind of baseline delay here, in addition to the configurable one. The question is, how much? Getting a measure of the typical time to photon on v1 would be a good start.


Sure, I don't mean to have it sound like I'm coming off crusading against or for the new timings. You are much more in tune with this kinda of thing, to me as the end user if the photon is faster due to V2 its a timing issue. Or lack of proper lag, or whatever.

Correct me if I'm wrong but one major change was that commands in V1 were processed on a first come first serve. Whereas in V2 commands are processed together and in batches. So my persistent thought process is attributed towards seeing this progression linearly. Where the TWGS processes everything together in steps (I.e. Move/Limp Message/Mine Message/Fighter Message/Resolution of the Move).

I'm not sure how to go about getting the typical time on a photon, were talking micro seconds. Also we need both photoner (Start-time) and photoned (End-time) and the time between the two, which poses some challenges.

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:59 am
Profile ICQ
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am
Posts: 3150
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
If you have two scripts running, one that photons and another that is effected by the photon, you could use timestamps to determine how much time it takes.

The script that is moving into a sector could generate a timestamp at the moment it enters the sector. The script that is waiting to photon could generate a timestamp to moment it receives a limpet message. It would then fire the photon. The script that is being photoned would then generate a timestamp at the moment it is aware of the photon. I'm not sure the best way to detect the photon in an accurate way. Maybe if it's displaying the sector over and over, it's the first time the photon message shows up.

It may not be necessary to get an accurate measurement. We know what behavior is expected, so some trial and error may be enough to get us there.

_________________
John Pritchett
EIS
---
Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.


Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:07 pm
Profile WWW
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1044
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
I can not seem to reproduce this locally. I'm waiting on word from the opposing team on the exact dynamics there using to recreate this behavior.

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:21 pm
Profile ICQ
Gameop
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am
Posts: 1044
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Possible photon related bug
Kaus wrote:
I can not seem to reproduce this locally. I'm waiting on word from the opposing team on the exact dynamics there using to recreate this behavior.


Its just a simple hoton scrit from mombot, its still happening and im nsure why. The timing is really finicky, some of us can get to fig promot if we abort displays, others drop past enemy figs from their photon and get citkiled and then dont flee properlly and get sd.

_________________
Dark Dominion TWGS
Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23
ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=-
"This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."


Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:14 am
Profile ICQ
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 10 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.