View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:29 pm



Reply to topic  [ 122 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
 High Scores Update 
Author Message
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 3877
Location: USA
Unread post High Scores Update
I'm not talking about the in game CLV but rather the game menu High Score display.

I understand this was "intended" to show you generally who the players are and their scores so you could judge if this was the type of game you wanted to play or not.

But, I understand now that some players use this method of checking the high score screen with scripts and monitoring changes so they can best utilize their time in time limit games. I.E. Swoop in and attack a player who's just logged in and started playing - thier score has just changed, or they've just changed ships or corps.

Since we're working on the V-Screen updates, I thought this a good time to bring this up.

My suggestion - once daily extern event to update the High Score display. We need to give players who prefer to play time limit games the capability of being able to play without external monitoring. If you want the CLV, it will cost you to log in and use your time, or be effected by the relog penalty.

==-- Trade Wars 2002 --==

T - Play Trade Wars 2002
I - Introduction & Help
S - View Game Settings
H - High scores
X - Exit

Enter your choice: H

_________________
Image
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team
2018 HHT Champs: Rock Stars


Classic Style Games Here:
telnet://Cruncherstw.no-ip.biz:2002

Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155 ... adewar.htm
Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com
E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW


Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:27 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Veteran Op

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm
Posts: 5025
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Actually you could get by if it only updated hourly. I'm pretty sure it currently updates every time you hit the "H" just like the clv does.


Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:51 am
Profile
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm
Posts: 2059
Location: Oklahoma
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
So players will create alternate users to monitor who is logged in? I only know a few people or corps that use that method of play sitting at the H screen all day. Removing it or making that info only internal the game will just result in players sitting at the game selection menu. Unless of course there is a way for the Nodes to not be available.

1. Hide Players on line from Nodes. (node view Sysop Only)
2. H is not available to outside players. (must log in to view)

You can make so while in game there is no way to know if players are online, why not have that same option for the nodes?

Hell must has just froze over I might be agreeing with Cruncher!! :lol:

_________________
T0yman (Permanently Retired since 2012)
Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.


Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:08 am
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:24 pm
Posts: 544
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
T0yman wrote:
So players will create alternate users to monitor who is logged in? I only know a few people or corps that use that method of play sitting at the H screen all day. Removing it or making that info only internal the game will just result in players sitting at the game selection menu. Unless of course there is a way for the Nodes to not be available.

1. Hide Players on line from Nodes. (node view Sysop Only)
2. H is not available to outside players. (must log in to view)

You can make so while in game there is no way to know if players are online, why not have that same option for the nodes?

Hell must has just froze over I might be agreeing with Cruncher!! :lol:


I like the idea of Hiding online players nodes(node view sysop only) And i think you could update the H hourly and keep it accessible from the outside of the game and still serve the purpose it was meant for. The Node view should be a sysop option on the server software the H screen hourly update should be applied to all games thus making no reason for a option.I mean there is really no reason for this to be updated faster other then to monitor time limit games...otherwise you could just enter the game and see it real time.

_________________
The Ghost you LOVE to HATE!!! The J.R. Ewing of TradeWars..
Time Tells All Tales.

Jesus woundn't SubSpace Crawl
Image


Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:17 am
Profile WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Now that the time penalty has been fixed, this is a much
smaller issue. In the beta, you get penalized if you log out
before a certain time frame. So if you want to keep out a
lurker, all you need to do is set a smaller time limit and
turn up the penalty. At that point, logging in and out to lurk
makes no sense against someone logging in to play all of
their time.

If you eliminate the high score logs, people will just adapt
around it. I can easily proxy in thru another IP and monitor
scores in-game if necessary, then have a 2nd setup bring
in the corped player as needed. But with a time penalty,
the corped player only gets a certain amount of time either
way, and an actual limitation is created.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:23 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:24 pm
Posts: 544
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Singularity wrote:
I can easily proxy in thru another IP and monitor
scores in-game if necessary, then have a 2nd setup bring
in the corped player as needed. But with a time penalty,
the corped player only gets a certain amount of time either
way, and an actual limitation is created.


im not sure i agree with your argument because in reality you can do that right now.
nothing to really stop you and there would be some advantage to be gained...BUT the H scores updated hourly would force you to that route and i for one am not sure how many people other then you who would have an intrest in doing it.

_________________
The Ghost you LOVE to HATE!!! The J.R. Ewing of TradeWars..
Time Tells All Tales.

Jesus woundn't SubSpace Crawl
Image


Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:26 am
Profile WWW
Commander
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:00 am
Posts: 1800
Location: Outer Rims
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Space Ghost wrote:
Singularity wrote:
I can easily proxy in thru another IP and monitor
scores in-game if necessary, then have a 2nd setup bring
in the corped player as needed. But with a time penalty,
the corped player only gets a certain amount of time either
way, and an actual limitation is created.


im not sure i agree with your argument because in reality you can do that right now.
nothing to really stop you and there would be some advantage to be gained...BUT the H scores updated hourly would force you to that route and i for one am not sure how many people other then you who would have an intrest in doing it.


Hmmm. Let me see. Our site does it now.

We have our ScoreKeeper pulling the scores for our site using the H key from the menu. I can alter the script if I have to or if the feature is removed, so it is no big deal to me.

Internal changes I get, but now you want to remove the H from the menu, which has been around since the dawn of this game. I don't quite get the importance of removing it other than to force players to log in.

_________________
-Thrawn

But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare.

--

Knight to Queen's Bishop 3


Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:42 am
Profile
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Space Ghost wrote:
im not sure i agree with your argument because in reality you can do that right now.
nothing to really stop you and there would be some advantage to be gained...BUT the H scores updated hourly would force you to that route and i for one am not sure how many people other then you who would have an intrest in doing it.


Well, but you can't. Sitting in a game w/o being corped
is pointless, all you can do is clv. You can't see the fighits,
because you're not on the corp. You don't have access to
the torping planet, etc, etc.

The reason people don't do that now is because it provides
no real advantage to monitoring the game. You can get all
you need from the high scores.

So really, the value in this comes from being corped, so you
can actually see fighits and the like. So by adding in a time
penalty, you make people ask whether or not it's worth the
loss of time to chase a new player / small fry.

If you take that away, people are going to script around it.
I guarantee it. All you do is make it that much harder for
non-scripters to compete, because once the work-around is
written, nobody's going to want to share it.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:42 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Commander
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:00 am
Posts: 1419
Location: USA
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Thrawn wrote:
Space Ghost wrote:
Singularity wrote:
I can easily proxy in thru another IP and monitor
scores in-game if necessary, then have a 2nd setup bring
in the corped player as needed. But with a time penalty,
the corped player only gets a certain amount of time either
way, and an actual limitation is created.


im not sure i agree with your argument because in reality you can do that right now.
nothing to really stop you and there would be some advantage to be gained...BUT the H scores updated hourly would force you to that route and i for one am not sure how many people other then you who would have an intrest in doing it.


Hmmm. Let me see. Our site does it now.

We have our ScoreKeeper pulling the scores for our site using the H key from the menu. I can alter the script if I have to or if the feature is removed, so it is no big deal to me.

Internal changes I get, but now you want to remove the H from the menu, which has been around since the dawn of this game. I don't quite get the importance of removing it other than to force players to log in.


Apparently Crucncher thinks it's an offensive script so she doesn’t like it. Even if it is just a data gathering script.

_________________
Image
Image
Founding Member of: Flying Ace's


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:10 am
Profile ICQ
Commander
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:00 am
Posts: 1800
Location: Outer Rims
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Kewlbreeze wrote:
Thrawn wrote:

Hmmm. Let me see. Our site does it now.

We have our ScoreKeeper pulling the scores for our site using the H key from the menu. I can alter the script if I have to or if the feature is removed, so it is no big deal to me.

Internal changes I get, but now you want to remove the H from the menu, which has been around since the dawn of this game. I don't quite get the importance of removing it other than to force players to log in.


Apparently Crucncher thinks it's an offensive script so she doesn’t like it. Even if it is just a data gathering script.


Oh. I could code it to say "Hello" or "Good day" to be more user-friendly. :)

_________________
-Thrawn

But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare.

--

Knight to Queen's Bishop 3


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:15 am
Profile
Commander
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:00 am
Posts: 1419
Location: USA
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Thrawn wrote:
Kewlbreeze wrote:
Thrawn wrote:

Hmmm. Let me see. Our site does it now.

We have our ScoreKeeper pulling the scores for our site using the H key from the menu. I can alter the script if I have to or if the feature is removed, so it is no big deal to me.

Internal changes I get, but now you want to remove the H from the menu, which has been around since the dawn of this game. I don't quite get the importance of removing it other than to force players to log in.


Apparently Crucncher thinks it's an offensive script so she doesn’t like it. Even if it is just a data gathering script.


Oh. I could code it to say "Hello" or "Good day" to be more user-friendly. :)


Oh I don't think she likes that either... we made a fed talking script already... she didn't respond to well to that...lol

_________________
Image
Image
Founding Member of: Flying Ace's


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:17 am
Profile ICQ
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm
Posts: 2059
Location: Oklahoma
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Thrawn wrote:
Internal changes I get, but now you want to remove the H from the menu, which has been around since the dawn of this game. I don't quite get the importance of removing it other than to force players to log in.


What she is saying is that people are sitting monitoring Alignment/Experience/Ships to find the changes and logging in to go on the offensive. I have sat at the Node's and just watched, but others watch the H to know who and when they are online. Pretty much the same thing but if the H only updated once an hour and the nodes were hidden that would eliminate both methods. Using a proxy to log in to monitor who is in the game in my book would be duping. But that is just my opinion and would be up to each individual sysop to handle on there own.

_________________
T0yman (Permanently Retired since 2012)
Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:19 am
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Commander
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:00 am
Posts: 1800
Location: Outer Rims
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
Ok, well there are two sides to the H key in the menu- one for player usage, and one for SysOp usage. My point is when you remove something like the H to view High Scores in a menu that has been around since the dawn of time, you are affecting not just players, but those of us SysOps that use that key as well. We have two separate scripts that use it to provide data on our website. I can alter them if needed, but I'm asking if it is really necessary to remove it.

_________________
-Thrawn

But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare.

--

Knight to Queen's Bishop 3


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:22 am
Profile
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm
Posts: 2059
Location: Oklahoma
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
But as with everything in TW's someone finds a way to exploit something as harmless as a menu :)

_________________
T0yman (Permanently Retired since 2012)
Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:30 am
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am
Posts: 3150
Location: USA
Unread post Re: High Scores Update
I think a good way to look at this is as an extension of the "show who's online" setting. It seems clear to me that the point of that setting is to make it impossible for a player to know when others are in the game unless they see them in space. If that's the case, that setting could be improved by having a matching setting to hide who's online on the server main menu (or at least hiding what the player is doing who's online), and also by either disabling or changing the way H and CLV (both) update so that they cannot be used to glean when players are online. These seem like changes that would be consistent with achieving the goal of an existing feature, and these changes would then be optional depending on whether the "show who's online" setting is active.

Thrawn, I don't think the H screen needs to be disabled at all for any connection with sysop access, so your scripts could be able to function regardless of this setting.

_________________
John Pritchett
EIS
---
Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.


Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:38 am
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 122 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.