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Unlimited Photon Bug
http://classictw.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=30693
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Author:  Parrothead [ Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Unlimited Photon Bug

Where are we on this?

Just a bump.

Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

If I understand this correctly, you're just referring to the fact that photon has no effect in unlimited turn games?

Author:  Singularity [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

It has an effect, but if you slide out of the sector or
manage to get out of the sector then the effect goes
floo and you're free to roam again.

This irritates some people, because they can't stop
a gridder using photons in an unlim.

But it's become a standard of play now, so who knows.

Author:  Parrothead [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Well Unlim's are just Gridder vs Gridder now.

There are realistically no way to stop a proper unlim gridder with full safety features.

Some may say they have a trick or two but I added safety features to my gridder for these "tricks" as will others soon enough.

New Players are attracted to the unlim's for some reason SO unlim's have just become a killing ground for new / returning players and Stalemates for everyone else. Blockades and other play denial aside.

Fixing the foton bug would Stop the afk gridding and return some playability to the Unlim's. I am sure Prom and a few other "solo" player may disagree but so there it is.

Author:  Space Ghost [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Parrothead wrote:
Fixing the foton bug would Stop the afk gridding and return some playability to the Unlim's. I am sure Prom and a few other "solo" player may disagree but so there it is.

I think we should get more input from regular unlimited players,,,,just as
I dont want anyone screwing with "my" game and how i play it . I am sure there are unlimited players who feel the same way. For the sake of everyone can we descirbe what this "bug" is all about and how it works. Is the current way EXPECTED behavior or is it working in an UNEXPECTED way?? I would like to see more details on how this works now and how it would work if "fixed".

Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

It was not intended behavior. When the option for unlimited turns was introduced, it was not considered how it would effect something like photons that take away turns. I've resisted a complete redesign of the photon feature so that it would work with or without turns (disabling a ship for a certain time duration, for example). It might be possible to treat unlimited turns in a slightly different way. Rather than ignore turns, I could have a special "infinite" turns value. So turns could take two values, infinite and zero. When infinite, any turns spent will not subtract from turns. But when zero, as when a photon hits you, you have no turns to spend. This would actually be a pretty easy way to work around this issue and return the "out of turns" effect of photons to unlimited turn games.

Author:  Singularity [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Parrothead wrote:
Some may say they have a trick or two but I added safety features to my gridder for these "tricks" as will others soon enough.


There are common tricks that everyone knows, and
there are some tricks that I doubt you're familiar with.
Given enough time tho, it's not hard to adapt a script
to work around a given problem (in most cases).

Parrothead wrote:
Fixing the foton bug would Stop the afk gridding and return some playability to the Unlim's. I am sure Prom and a few other "solo" player may disagree but so there it is.


My public gridder automatically shakes off a photon.
I could easily tweak it to speed things up a bit, and
just as easily have it sit and wait for the photon to
wear off and restart. So people are still going to afk
grid. All a torp does is slow people down, it won't stop
them. It could be argued that torps would increase
the amount of afk gridding.

The way an unlim is supposed to work is that your
ship is disabled by X minutes (1 minute for every 1
second of the torp). So a 6 second torp means 6
minutes disabled.

The problem is if you change sectors and do something
that causes the sector number to be checked, then
it will clear that flag and you're free to go. This means
you can mow around w/ photons in an unlim and not
get hit, or that you can land on a planet, move the
planet, holoscan and proceed.

I actually kindof like photons having no ship effect in
an unlim (while still being useful for invasions), but it
would be nice to an option that returns the intended
effect.

Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Ahh, ok. What you're describing is actually a bug rather than just an unintended consequence of a setting. The disable flag is not supposed to be reset for any other reason than the photon effect wearing off. I think it would be reasonably easy to fix that.

Author:  Promethius [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Parrothead wrote:
Well Unlim's are just Gridder vs Gridder now.

There are realistically no way to stop a proper unlim gridder with full safety features.

Some may say they have a trick or two but I added safety features to my gridder for these "tricks" as will others soon enough.

New Players are attracted to the unlim's for some reason SO unlim's have just become a killing ground for new / returning players and Stalemates for everyone else. Blockades and other play denial aside.

Fixing the foton bug would Stop the afk gridding and return some playability to the Unlim's. I am sure Prom and a few other "solo" player may disagree but so there it is.


Actually I agree with you completely on getting rid of the bug. It really is more of an advantage I think for corps than solos in its current state, but regardless it needs fixed. Hit/retreat off a fig and even if hit by a torp just keep on running.... Unlims are as you say gridder vs gridder, and pretty much a waste of time.

Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

I had completely forgotten I'd created this disable effect for unlim games. Ok, so I can fix it so the disabling effect persists even if you move to another sector. If I make an option, what should the options be? Photon does/doesn't disable a player?

Author:  Singularity [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Right now it disables, it just isn't persistent. So...

"Unlim photon persistence" or something maybe?

Author:  Scrat [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

It's been a while since I've played an unlimited turn game, but I recall there also being a photon bug where an accidental detonation has no effects on your movement. So unlike a turn game you can warp all around the universe with a ship load of photons and not have to worry about taking damage and getting stuck somewhere.

Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Right, Scrat, I was just looking at that. The issue was that the photon effect was bound to the sector where the photon was detonated. But when a photon goes off on your ship, it doesn't effect the sector like a normal launch. The only effect is that it zeros out your turns. And in an unlim game, that does nothing.

To fix the persistence issue, I've bound the effect to the player as well as the sector. So it would be no problem to have this disable effect when you accidentally detonate a photon. I'll get that fixed.

Sing, if players are getting around the disabling effect by moving to another sector, is there really a point to even disabling the player without persistence? The easiest and cleanest feature would be to either disable or not disable at all (though of course the dampening during the photon wave would still exist). I don't see the point of disabling a player when scripts will just un-disable the player immediately.

Author:  Singularity [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

John Pritchett wrote:
Sing, if players are getting around the disabling effect by moving to another sector, is there really a point to even disabling the player without persistence? The easiest and cleanest feature would be to either disable or not disable at all (though of course the dampening during the photon wave would still exist). I don't see the point of disabling a player when scripts will just un-disable the player immediately.


Well, the way it is now it forces people to pdrop rather
than ptorp. That has the effect of making photons useful
for invasions, but not for grid defense. That's a unique
feature of unlim play these days, and people have built
around it to create very aggressive grid play.

With this changed, people will resort to torping more
often since it has a much higher success rate and a much
lower risk. This will change the nature of unlim grid play
very drastically. For people like myself and phead, who
play turns more than unlims, this will provide a huge
advantage. I already have scripts that would give me a
massive edge against unlim photoners, and they're easy
to adjust.

But for current unlim players, especially for solo players
who wouldn't have access to the same resources, this
could have a very profound impact. I'm not saying it's
negative, but it has the potential to drastically affect the
way the game is played. And something so broad should
probably be optional in some way.

Author:  Promethius [ Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unlimited Photon Bug

Singularity wrote:
John Pritchett wrote:
Sing, if players are getting around the disabling effect by moving to another sector, is there really a point to even disabling the player without persistence? The easiest and cleanest feature would be to either disable or not disable at all (though of course the dampening during the photon wave would still exist). I don't see the point of disabling a player when scripts will just un-disable the player immediately.


Well, the way it is now it forces people to pdrop rather
than ptorp. That has the effect of making photons useful
for invasions, but not for grid defense. That's a unique
feature of unlim play these days, and people have built
around it to create very aggressive grid play.

With this changed, people will resort to torping more
often since it has a much higher success rate and a much
lower risk. This will change the nature of unlim grid play
very drastically. For people like myself and phead, who
play turns more than unlims, this will provide a huge
advantage. I already have scripts that would give me a
massive edge against unlim photoners, and they're easy
to adjust. It would also impact death matches, too.

But for current unlim players, especially for solo players
who wouldn't have access to the same resources, this
could have a very profound impact. I'm not saying it's
negative, but it has the potential to drastically affect the
way the game is played. And something so broad should
probably be optional in some way.


I think a consistent behavior across turns and unlims would be good. Doesn't make a lot of sense to ptorp someone who will simply call "saveme" and then be back gridding within a few seconds. The 1 second photon which is common only disables the ship for a minute - at most even without the bug. If the person is torped closed to the minute click, I am not sure if that is the same issue as launching halfway through the second on an invasion. Would be more interesting if the ptorp disabled planet landing.....

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