If SD is provided by the game, that includes warp-out info, so you already have those sectors available to set avoids.

The argument here seems to be that I can't limit plot information in an effort to keep game map info hidden until you explore, because if it's hidden until you explore, the game becomes unplayable. So that argument is basically saying you need to know details about a sector before you visit a sector. And if you need to know details about a sector before you visit a sector, the game should just give that to you. Why expect you to jump through hoops using warp path info in a way it was never intended? Unless the modern appeal of TradeWars is the very fact that it's so obfuscated.

Oh, and about the point of TW being more about customizing the game, I definitely recognize that. But that part is and always will be supported by the game. What's no longer supported is those players who want to play the game in a way it used to be played. Players impose their own gameplay on this game, and those who don't like it can't play in games with those who do. I'd like to have ways to satisfy both kinds of players. The game as you guys play it simply does not appeal to some people.

Don't over-generalize the details.

Some things you need to know. Some things you do not.

For instance I need to know that sector X warps to sector
Y via sector Z. Why? So that if sector Z is a problem, I can
avoid it. There are a lot of ways I may get this information,
they may not all be readily apparent to the game or the
design of the game. If you take away a player's ability to
determine their course, then new problems emerge. That's
what we're saying, that there are a slew of new problems
that emerge because of the inability to self-determine one's
own course.

But not all details need to be known, or should be known.
You should not know what ports are there, what class that
port is, or who has what stuff there. Finding the non-listed
stuff is why we explore, why we grid, etc. Using the warp
information, however, we can do this very efficiently.

If your goal is just to provide this warpspec to all players,
that's not going to be a big issue. Right now, sysops can
already do this. They can get the warpspec and post it if
they want. I almost never do. Why? Because IMO, players
should work for this information if they want it, and the time
before it's generally available leads to some interesting
early game tactics that some people are trying to master.

Which is what this game is really all about for most of us
here. It's not just a game to go in and play for an hour and
be "oh that was fun" but rather a challenge to understand
and master. We want things to be a little difficult, we want
to have to work for the information we have so that we can
master it.

Not If you had not been there already..we know where Stardock from the V screen. And with setting Avoids we cant get Warpin Info...unless your setting that also but then you are giving info away from unknown sectors again and we are back to square one.

[quote="John Pritchett" Why expect you to jump through hoops using warp path info in a way it was never intended? Unless the modern appeal of TradeWars is the very fact that it's so obfuscated.[/quote]

I think the purpose of the warp data was so you can see where you are going. Always was.

Why would I want to Play a game where I cant see where I am going / avoid dieing Or have a way to find the other guy. I would have to mow to get colos on my first run...Which might flip me red. If I hit a fig then my position is given away. I can scan but I cant go around...So what...move My base?

I understand your looking for a way to make the game more casual but this isn't going to get you there.
Creating an ATMOPHERE in a certain edit has more effect on Game play.

Take Pirates for example. Heavy Figs / Eq / Org Production on Planets = BLUE GAME
Huge Tholian Ship that lands makes Invasion very hard if Peeps are at keys and it becomes a matter of trying to force the other guy to make a mistake. Hiding your base after a certain point is actually a disadvantage of sorts.It is not gameplay that dictates the end game so much as the personality of the opponent.

Poker Run is more of a mixed game. Planets are needed as well as Megarobbing.

Some edits with 60% planet trade settings are more of an SST only edit for cashing.

ETC. ETC.

The appeal of TW is that it allows many different edits/versions of the game.
Script writers like being able to write there own stuff. Even if its not better it is THEIRS.
Perma Corps like being able to have there own scripts that interact creating 2,3 and 4 man scripts.


Some people think of TW as SimCity but it is really Chess with 20k sectors.
But it all depends on the Player subset of those who are playing.

Read back a few pages. You would only get
sectors you've seen in the CF plot, and would
only be able to avoid sectors you've been to
or seen.

I ALWAYS used macros....Then helpers. Going back my to my 8088 with 1200 baud modem.

You cant have a Multilayer environment AND have peeps play like they where online running there hour alone. 2 different games.

Sysops can setup servers that only have Web site Java access if there is a demand for long hand only play.

Using the TWA and other tools you can set up a game that FAVORS a certain Kind of play.


IF you want to help Sysop's give people an easier game to play then Do a Truce mode Toggle to make things Easy without a script or Sysop interference.

1)Disable buying mines and Limpets at Dock or on ships without having to run a script to edit ships.
2)Change all Ship OFF odds to 0.2 for truce period.
3)Disable Sector Cannons on level 3 or above planets
4)Turns off the sector NAvHAz during truce
5)If possible allow only 1 fig in a sector unless there is also a beacon present.

Switch On = TRUCE
Switch Off = TRuce over

With auto timer if possible.

Why? To force manual ewarping.

How...see above.

But

"Sector 1 is 13 hops away from here."
Using Twarp distance data I will still be able to do some mapping

But all in all the first guy ingame will kill everyone who comes in more than 30 minutes after bang.

if its done exactly in that fashion I would tend to agree with both you and Singularity.The first guy in the game would have a huge advantage in that scenario...However i was hoping that MAYBE JP and you two guys were not on the same page...As his previous post about Stardock having known warp outs with out visiting it read... Which leads me to believe he is talking more about giving that information rather then limiting it....Which is also why im asking for more Details of what he is proposing.

Earlier we talked about making warpspec publicly
available automatically. It should be an option,
not something that's forced on people. But as an
option, I don't see why anyone would complain.
Some will use it, some won't. If you want it for your
players, turn it on. If not, turn it off.

But a warpspec isn't magic.

So... it won't solve any of the problems mentioned
here so far.

Hopefully you are not saying the current TWGS gives the warp out info, because it doesn't. Log into a game, do a ci on Dock and you get the "you have never visited sector" message. Do a ^i and you see the sectors around whatever sector you dropped into the game at.

Funny I always thought that the purpose of CF was to give a player the path. I'm not sure what else it could have been intended for. Could you give me a clue on its real purpose?

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Since the game we play doesn't appeal to "others" then why are you even bothering asking questions of people who play? The tone of some posts seems to indicate frustration on your part in the answers we give and the alternatives that we would take based on a given change. Wouldn't be simpler to just to fix the bugs in the current version and then ask the people on Facebook what they would like to see - implemented and call it V4. Two versions for two different styles.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I would also add a planet being required with 5. A truce mode enforced by TWGS would probably be one of the most beneficial things that could happen to eliminate player frustration and sysOp headaches.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I'm Singularity, and I approve of this message.