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 The lowly Sentinel 
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Thrawn wrote:
See in our mind (myself and my wife), it made sense to increase the figs/shields on it and it would be more than enough.


I agree with this. I think it was scrat that suggested
bumping up shields to max. That would be a way to
prevent reloaders on non-shielded planets, and is
worth considering as an edit change.

I think 2 things would be useful:
1. Increase the stock figs/shields of the ship
2. Have a way to auto-expire the gbonus

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:29 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
Thrawn wrote:
See in our mind (myself and my wife), it made sense to increase the figs/shields on it and it would be more than enough.


I agree with this. I think it was scrat that suggested
bumping up shields to max. That would be a way to
prevent reloaders on non-shielded planets, and is
worth considering as an edit change.

I think 2 things would be useful:
1. Increase the stock figs/shields of the ship
2. Have a way to auto-expire the gbonus


So make the gbonus on a toggle, so it can auto-expire after X days. Would this include extra ships created that are given gbonus? And if so, then you make the auto-expire available as a sub-setting to gbonus option set to Yes. Am I following you correctly?

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:32 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Thrawn wrote:
So make the gbonus on a toggle, so it can auto-expire after X days. Would this include extra ships created that are given gbonus? And if so, then you make the auto-expire available as a sub-setting to gbonus option set to Yes. Am I following you correctly?


That would work. Right now you can't really toggle it
off in the ships menu, since ship records aren't instantly
updated.

I would prefer a way to completely turn gbonus off
for all ships. Doesn't matter to me where it's placed,
but it would be nice for gbonus to last, say, 10 days,
then go bye-bye. Would eliminate the long drawn
out gbonus stales.

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:34 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
That would work. Right now you can't really toggle it
off in the ships menu, since ship records aren't instantly
updated.

I would prefer a way to completely turn gbonus off
for all ships. Doesn't matter to me where it's placed,
but it would be nice for gbonus to last, say, 10 days,
then go bye-bye. Would eliminate the long drawn
out gbonus stales.


Yeah, that makes sense. One local setting to turn it off for *any*/all ships with gbonus would probably be easier.

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:39 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
I'm not going to read through all of this. There's just too much here. But I do want to say that, as so often is the case, this entire debate is predicated on the false assumption that I'm changing gameplay. I'm not. I'm recognizing that the Sentinel is a ship that can be used in "creative" ways, and not everyone likes that it can be used that way. Sure, you can edit the ship so it works differently, or is completely useless. But as the programmer I can create new options for the ship, and I'd like to do that to get it to be the ship I believe it was intended to be. But this and ANYTHING I do will be optional, so it doesn't effect you at all. There's no sense in arguing about it. You can help me better achieve my goal, but arguing against my goal is pointless.

Can I just macro that point? That would save me a ton of time...

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Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:04 am
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
John Pritchett wrote:
I'm not going to read through all of this. There's just too much here. But I do want to say that, as so often is the case, this entire debate is predicated on the false assumption that I'm changing gameplay. I'm not. I'm recognizing that the Sentinel is a ship that can be used in "creative" ways, and not everyone likes that it can be used that way. Sure, you can edit the ship so it works differently, or is completely useless. But as the programmer I can create new options for the ship, and I'd like to do that to get it to be the ship I believe it was intended to be. But this and ANYTHING I do will be optional, so it doesn't effect you at all. There's no sense in arguing about it. You can help me better achieve my goal, but arguing against my goal is pointless.

Can I just macro that point? That would save me a ton of time...

you should save a generic version of this to copy and paste. youd save yourself time and headaches.
omg booger said something smart???? lol!

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Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:13 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Actually I already have the toggle I need. I just edit any ship with the theolian bonus carry 0 gtorps. Problem resolved.


Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:08 am
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
JOhn you intended it to be a early game base defense.

Who is going to eat torps every hour to defend lvl 1 planets at a known location?

Only thing to do is move your base.

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Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:53 am
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Parrothead, can you clarify the tactic you're describing? Is "torp" a Genesis Torpedo, or are you referring to the Photon Missile as a torp? Just trying to figure out what your argument is here.

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Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:42 am
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
John Pritchett wrote:
Parrothead, can you clarify the tactic you're describing? Is "torp" a Genesis Torpedo, or are you referring to the Photon Missile as a torp? Just trying to figure out what your argument is here.


He means photons. If your base is found pre-lv5,
and they photon in every hour, they can take a
lot of turns from you.

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Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:07 am
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Well pre-level 4 really....as at lvl 4 I move if that happens.
What I don't do is sit in a tholian for a week with no turns defending lvl 2 planets.
Tholian really needs an IG in that case anyway otherwise they just push into your little bubble and get your ship or what u have stashed....figs from lvl 1/0 planets etc.

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Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:30 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
So in other words, there's no value whatsoever in defending a planet until it reaches a certain level? And this is why a Sentinel has no value as an early base defender, because nobody wants to defend low level planets. So if that's the case, then the problem is not so much that the Sentinel isn't effective as a base defender, the problem is that the game as it's currently played doesn't favor defensive positions early on. Resources are so cheap that there's no disincentive for throwing a 40K cr Photon on a player every hour. That certainly makes sense. At the pace games are played today, I think it's probably just a fact that an early-game ship like the Sentinel is obsolete. Changing that would involve slowing the game down a bit as much as making changers to the Sentinel.

I'll continue to look at the bigger picture on that. If it's not possible to restore the Sentinel to its intended role, if that role is just no longer needed, then the next best thing is to establish its role and make sure it's not overpowering or ineffective in its stock state. And that should be easy enough to do.

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Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:59 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
John Pritchett wrote:
So in other words, there's no value whatsoever in defending a planet until it reaches a certain level? And this is why a Sentinel has no value as an early base defender, because nobody wants to defend low level planets. So if that's the case, then the problem is not so much that the Sentinel isn't effective as a base defender, the problem is that the game as it's currently played doesn't favor defensive positions early on. Resources are so cheap that there's no disincentive for throwing a 40K cr Photon on a player every hour. That certainly makes sense. At the pace games are played today, I think it's probably just a fact that an early-game ship like the Sentinel is obsolete. Changing that would involve slowing the game down a bit as much as making changers to the Sentinel.

I'll continue to look at the bigger picture on that. If it's not possible to restore the Sentinel to its intended role, if that role is just no longer needed, then the next best thing is to establish its role and make sure it's not overpowering or ineffective in its stock state. And that should be easy enough to do.


The stock sentinel isn't really an issue. Add a few shields to the ship and you've fixed that problem. The problem more or less lies when the ship is edited or other ships like attack ships and grid ships are given the planet bonus capabilities. That however is a mistake made by inexperienced sysops making game edits and is really not a game problem.


Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:28 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Well it only applies where photons are on.
John the game was ALWAYS played this way.
No one has EVER used the Tholian as you envision since the days of 250 turns and 1 hour a day single node.

@ 1 hour a day you couldn't log in to take turns every hour.

If you want OLD SCHOOL tactics then you have to play an OLD SCHOOL GAME
Bang some 250 turn One hour time limit games and see who shows up to play.
I played on BBS's for many years..mostly because I worked 6 days a week Long hours and played TW mostly on Rainy Saturday's and Sundays for a few hours. Slow games where what i wanted.
1 to 2 years between bangs.

Your definition of early game is off because Corps 5 playing 1500 turns is a different animal than 250 turns solo.

Unlim Players dont care if they get Torped so you see there use in Unlim's but they are past what you would call "early game" in about an hour or less.

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Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:32 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
John Pritchett wrote:
So in other words, there's no value whatsoever in defending a planet until it reaches a certain level? And this is why a Sentinel has no value as an early base defender, because nobody wants to defend low level planets. So if that's the case, then the problem is not so much that the Sentinel isn't effective as a base defender, the problem is that the game as it's currently played doesn't favor defensive positions early on. Resources are so cheap that there's no disincentive for throwing a 40K cr Photon on a player every hour. That certainly makes sense. At the pace games are played today, I think it's probably just a fact that an early-game ship like the Sentinel is obsolete. Changing that would involve slowing the game down a bit as much as making changers to the Sentinel.

I'll continue to look at the bigger picture on that. If it's not possible to restore the Sentinel to its intended role, if that role is just no longer needed, then the next best thing is to establish its role and make sure it's not overpowering or ineffective in its stock state. And that should be easy enough to do.



Yeah, like I said earlier, it's just a give a-way that you do have young citadels in process. We find other means of early defenses. In mostly stock settings because this ship stock carries more shields than most, we just use it in a turns game to buy shields on our L5's when we move them over zero ports to save a turn here and there.

It really is obsolete.

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