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 TW high score list 
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Lieutenant J.G.
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Cruncher wrote:
the reverend wrote:
not to belabor the point, but if the intention of the game design was to enforce corps to be a single alignment, it would not have implemented penalties for having mixed alignments on the corp. the fact that you lose exp at extern for mixed corps is evidence that mixed corps are part of the design and that any advantages gained from being mixed were to be balanced at extern. i suppose it could be argued either way, but clearly the game design recognizes that there are advantages to being mixed.


Before Mega rob was known, we would never run a mixed corp because reds need experience to rob. Then it became common place for teams to megacorp.. lots of servers had specific rules for team sizes, your team could consist of red and blue players but no more than 6 players on a team, and corp limit was 6 so you could run any combination, and the corp team names had to be similar so you could easily identify the red/blue teams.

Mega corping and sharing assets was logistically challenging. Today's mixed corp is very easy to play, more so with mega rob as a "feature" of MBBS mode.

So, once upon a time the experience penalty made sense, now it's just manipulated so everyone on a mixed corp drops to 0 exp at extern, keeping the blue players fed safe. This game is MUCH easier to play than it once was by the simple act of turning a bug into a "feature".


Reputable players consider mega corping to be as close to cheating as you can get without actually cheating. It happens, and it mostly cant be proven, but that doesn't make it rite. Its a weak tactic and a sign of desperation reserved for weak players. I will never call one that lowers him or HER self to this action to EVER be a real player.

JMO

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:13 pm
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Farley wrote:
Reputable players consider mega corping to be as close to cheating as you can get without actually cheating. It happens, and it mostly cant be proven, but that doesn't make it rite. Its a weak tactic and a sign of desperation reserved for weak players. I will never call one that lowers him or HER self to this action to EVER be a real player.

JMO


So those who use AFK attack scripts, and data mine the High score list aren't cheaters? Don't they keep aruging that if the game allows, then it's not cheating?

As you moved away from human play to script play you lost an element of this game that makes it unlike any other video game you can play. Real people plotting, back-stabbing, sharing info, sharing miss-information, negociating non-agg pacts, moles, flirting and generaly silliness that is fed com chatter when humans are at the keys! :lol:

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:35 pm
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Ok, so if anything was done to limit gridding (to keep the game from becoming so gridlocked), then it would become necessary to address CIM mining. I don't think that would be too difficult. I could easily employ port report caching. Basically, if you have eyes on a port (ship or fig in the sector) or you own the port, you'll get realtime CIM updates on it. Otherwise, you'll get a cached view of the port that updates only after N minutes (defined in TEDIT). This would basically work like the high score list, updating periodically but not showing realtime data. Originally, a player gathering port reports would see a snapshot of port changes that occurred since his last time on (before the game was multiplayer). Using cached port reports would return the CIM report to this same basic functionality. You'd see changes in ports, but not immediately. Depending on the time delay, it's likely that the player using the port would be long gone when you detected the change.

Another possibility would be to simulate some degree of "background trade", so it's not so clear whether changes in a port are being caused by a real player. Of course, Gold aliens already provide this kind of background trade. I'm curious how that effects CIM hunting in todays games.

On the idea of handling Extern processing in realtime throughout the day, that's definitely a goal of mine. It feels like too much of a change for v3 and should be held over to a new version, one where I can make these changes mandatory rather than just options. But I would consider an isolated change like applying mixed-corp penalties if it's needed to address a major flaw like this.

So far, all of the suggested "legitimate" reasons for leaving a Corp have been ways to avoid certain costs of being in a Corp. I really think you should either be in a Corp or not, and take the costs and benefits that come with that.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:28 am
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Lieutenant J.G.
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Cruncher wrote:
Farley wrote:
Reputable players consider mega corping to be as close to cheating as you can get without actually cheating. It happens, and it mostly cant be proven, but that doesn't make it rite. Its a weak tactic and a sign of desperation reserved for weak players. I will never call one that lowers him or HER self to this action to EVER be a real player.

JMO


So those who use AFK attack scripts, and data mine the High score list aren't cheaters? Don't they keep aruging that if the game allows, then it's not cheating?

As you moved away from human play to script play you lost an element of this game that makes it unlike any other video game you can play. Real people plotting, back-stabbing, sharing info, sharing miss-information, negociating non-agg pacts, moles, flirting and generaly silliness that is fed com chatter when humans are at the keys! :lol:


all I can say is LOL

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:30 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
John Pritchett wrote:
Ok, so if anything was done to limit gridding (to keep the game from becoming so gridlocked), then it would become necessary to address CIM mining. I don't think that would be too difficult. I could easily employ port report caching. Basically, if you have eyes on a port (ship or fig in the sector) or you own the port, you'll get realtime CIM updates on it. Otherwise, you'll get a cached view of the port that updates only after N minutes (defined in TEDIT). This would basically work like the high score list, updating periodically but not showing realtime data. Originally, a player gathering port reports would see a snapshot of port changes that occurred since his last time on (before the game was multiplayer). Using cached port reports would return the CIM report to this same basic functionality. You'd see changes in ports, but not immediately. Depending on the time delay, it's likely that the player using the port would be long gone when you detected the change.


If the player is any good, he/she will be long gone in a current game depending on the size of your port report.

John Pritchett wrote:
Another possibility would be to simulate some degree of "background trade", so it's not so clear whether changes in a port are being caused by a real player. Of course, Gold aliens already provide this kind of background trade. I'm curious how that effects CIM hunting in todays games.


Aliens, depending on their setting, make CIM hunting a waste of time/turns.

John Pritchett wrote:
On the idea of handling Extern processing in realtime throughout the day, that's definitely a goal of mine. It feels like too much of a change for v3 and should be held over to a new version, one where I can make these changes mandatory rather than just options. But I would consider an isolated change like applying mixed-corp penalties if it's needed to address a major flaw like this.

So far, all of the suggested "legitimate" reasons for leaving a Corp have been ways to avoid certain costs of being in a Corp. I really think you should either be in a Corp or not, and take the costs and benefits that come with that.


The only cost of being on a mixed corp is the reds losng exp. For true costs then the blue should lose alignment instead of exp loss that makes them fed safe dock sitters. Enough of an alignment loss and moving at extern could cost you an ISS.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:37 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
If they aren't using CIM hunting, how are players finding other players so quickly?

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:44 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
MicroBlaster wrote:
If they aren't using CIM hunting, how are players finding other players so quickly?


Limpets picked up and not scrubbed happen way too often to count.

It is amazing how many players will also hit a fighter two - three hops out from their base after they have been away for a while with their first moves.

There are other ways that are more proactive with datamining. With decent data you can target your eprobes. Some players make a mistake and run immediately to check where their probe was destroyed. Fun begins with a photon.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:14 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
I am currently using an online watch script (use to be public)
that uses the CLV and # to see changes in game.
It can greet entering players and message them some random greeting,
which alerts all other players to them entering game.
As well as informing on SS the changing of ships or exp.

These scripts I'm sure disrupt the balance of the game.

So what now ? Do we break them to ?
I just think if we have to break the Main menu and T-menu scripts , lets break
the in game stuff to .. this will all help in killing tradewars and push players
to Eve or some other game.

I for one , think .. its not broken , why fix it ?
But as long as its all toggle-able and can be seen from the T-menu "*"
screen of settings .. then I can see before going in and avoid that server
or game.

I did check at one newly banged game and seen some settings I didn't like,
and didn't join.

So on the bright side .. we can check before we go in and cby ...
BTW .. I think that is a bigger disruptor in the game .. a player comes in and
finds he doesn't want to play , then cby's .. leaving a -10 alignment to
post on (that will never be claimed).

Would it not be better to give the option to remove your character
from the game ?

Just a thought ..
And something more to dissect ..

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:07 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Vid Kid wrote:
Would it not be better to give the option to remove your character
from the game ?

Just a thought ..
And something more to dissect ..


There is, delete inactive players after X days. But today a lot of sysops will increase that limit just so their games show an elevated player count in the game search engines like Home Sector and Microblaster's pages.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:21 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
unfortunately that still allows others to post on them ...

The point being , if a player didn't want to play but wanted to see the ships or planets in an edit , then cby'd.

Anyone wanting an easy commish can have one .. even in an all blue game.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:11 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Vid Kid wrote:
unfortunately that still allows others to post on them ...

The point being , if a player didn't want to play but wanted to see the ships or planets in an edit , then cby'd.

Anyone wanting an easy commish can have one .. even in an all blue game.


So why does this bother you? Posting on a cby player is money you'll never get back in a bounty.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:19 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
John Pritchett wrote:
Ok, so if anything was done to limit gridding (to keep the game from becoming so gridlocked)


Currently in building games a few us wrote serve side scripts to run a report. I took mine a step further to count/sort/add and delete random sectors until the corp/player was back under the amount set in the rules for the game. I had mine set to run once a day unless I found corp/players being abusive then I adjusted and ran once every couple hours. Problem is the script takes about 40 minutes to run since it has to check all sectors one at a time.

Would be nice to have a T-edit option that you set a % of sectors that can be gridded once you hit the magic number you or your corp can no longer drop figs without picking one up first.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:26 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Cruncher wrote:
Vid Kid wrote:
unfortunately that still allows others to post on them ...

The point being , if a player didn't want to play but wanted to see the ships or planets in an edit , then cby'd.

Anyone wanting an easy commish can have one .. even in an all blue game.


So why does this bother you? Posting on a cby player is money you'll never get back in a bounty.


Another silly tactic, maybe something you set in the game no bounties allowed in the first 48 hour?
I have seen a lot of people have someone come in just to CBY since they lack the experience to know how else to get a commission or just to lazy.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:30 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
T0yman wrote:
Another silly tactic, maybe something you set in the game no bounties allowed in the first 48 hour?
I have seen a lot of people have someone come in just to CBY since they lack the experience to know how else to get a commission or just to lazy.


IF CBY resulted in 0 alignment changes, what possible repercussions could that have?

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:41 am
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Unread post Re: TW high score list
Cruncher wrote:
T0yman wrote:
Another silly tactic, maybe something you set in the game no bounties allowed in the first 48 hour?
I have seen a lot of people have someone come in just to CBY since they lack the experience to know how else to get a commission or just to lazy.


IF CBY resulted in 0 alignment changes, what possible repercussions could that have?


Allowing people to post for commission from a player that never intended to actually play. Joined and CBY'd for the sole purpose of allowing people to get commissions. If JP wanted people to get commissioned that easily I would assume he would just let people buy it without this tactic or remove the benefits of having a commission.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:46 am
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