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 Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo 
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
Let me spell it out for the logically impaired. Those games that are for scripters will play well for scripters. Those that are not will not. It's up to the gameop to decide which is which. No feature will be forced on anyone. A gameop who wants to have elite players probably isn't going to change "credits" to "space bucks". But let me tell you, there are plenty of people who enjoy that kind of flexibility. Really, there are people who just enjoy being creative with this game, and aren't into the cut-throat all-consuming scene that you guys are into. Can we just let everyone play how they want to play?

Vid, sorry if you're growing tired. I appreciate all you've done. Given your server-side scripting, wandering planets and such, I thought you'd be excited about the new customization being provided. My mistake. As usual, nothing I'm doing here will force you to change a thing. It's optional. Considering you pushed so hard for the ability to make your wandering planet name blue, I thought you'd be interested in a bit more flexibility. But that's fine if it's not your thing. I will get the remaining bugs you've listed worked out and get a new update out soon (without these new features, because they're not yet ready). You've been a great help.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:17 am
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
Logically impaired are the people who even "think" that these inexperience sysops will know what these "options" will effect when they use them.

Maybe these sysops will want to draw the elite players and scripters to thier server, but they don't realize that some of these "options" will drive these players away. There are so many options that each server will have a completely different style game and the players won't have a clue what "options" have been changed until they waste thier time in a game that has had a bunch of "goofy" edits made to it.

Even Swath and other helpers won't work if enough of these "options" are used. It's going to come to the point that Stein is going to say "It's just not worth it" and the scripters are going to do the same.


Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:53 am
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
John Pritchett wrote:
So in summary, changing Photon Missile to Photon Torpedo would destroy the game?

NO, I don't think it would at all. Staying on topic in a thread might :)

On the MAP/ZTM I am talking a toggle, NO EVERYONE PLAYS kill'em all games. I and several other sysops like handing out the maps to players. I will continue to do so whether this change is implemented or not. Don't want to give the map out "TURN THE TOGGLE OFF".

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:59 am
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
Big D - "Logically impaired are the people who even "think" that these inexperience sysops will know what these "options" will effect when they use them."

Logically impaired, as well as a number of other descriptions I can think of, are people who think it's their place to tell gameops, inexperienced or otherwise, how to run their games.

It's actually a goal of mine for gameops to be able to turn their sites into something completely unique if they choose to. What do you think is better for a game like this, a thousand sites all running exactly the same game for the 100 people who are playing it (your Big D-centric view of the world), or a thousand sites, all running different games for their own particular groups of players who are attracted to them for their unique games that can't be found elsewhere? I understand the effects that customization have on the game. I still think it's overall for the best.

If you look at the most popular sites right now, it's those sites where the gameops have customized the game to create an experience that can't be found on a generic server. I'm just trying to expand the ability of those great site operators to do whatever it is they feel is best for their games. But the evidence is strong that what I'm trying to accomplish is better for the game, and what you're saying would serve no purpose but to maintain your own personal control over the game. But I thought we already solved that little dispute. You have v1.03.

There will always be "standard" games in which scripters and helper users can play, and any scripter or helper author would be insane to attempt to support every customized game out there. I really hope they won't. I know that many gameops who would choose to truly customize a game are probably not interested in bots playing those games. They do it so PEOPLE can see it and enjoy what they've created.

Of course, if I allow players to toggle text substitution in their games, then this becomes a moot argument anyway.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:33 am
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
I love the idea of a player toggle if you have to do it ..
Its a perfect solution if you do do that.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:54 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
Ok, consider it done.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:42 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
John Pritchett wrote:
Ok, consider it done.


Iam glad your finally working on a new version, being that V1 never saw any attention for many many many years! You did start this post with a question, and that typically means people will respond with answers or opinions. Iam sorry if you took it for more then it was!!! I personally dont think you should be taking game/setting advice from people that dont really have a good grasp on the game itself, does their opinion mean something? Yes, but not any more or less then the rest of our opinions!!! You say your trying to make something unique for the gameops, well lets not forget about the players themselves jp!!!!! Iam seeing alot of sysops input here but that only goes so far JP, you need to also listen to what the players want!! Last time I checked I never appointed toyman, or cruncher to speak for me or other players!! I understand you cant make everyone happy, I do, but if you already have your heart set on what answer you want to hear, why even ask it???Here is the thing, once you put out a final product you still have the same game, only now the sysops can be proud of their pretty sites and games, but its still is tradewars! People will use scripts and helpers, they will work around the edit "toggles" and still your going to have an elite group of players, but this time they wont be as kind as before to hand out all new scripts! I personally think thats what everyone here is trying to explain to you JP, the learning gap is just going to get wider!!! If thats the affect your looking for good on ya!!

Jp dont look at this as me bashing your V2, Iam all about it. I would just like for you to get in a few games and play and truly try to understand the game some, so your able to make some of these decision with some first hand game knowledge!!!

Edit: I also have my own server toy, so stop using the phrase "all us sysops really agree" Cause alot of the the stuff I dont!!!!

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:28 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
TheButcher wrote:
Edit: I also have my own server toy, so stop using the phrase "all us sysops really agree" Cause alot of the the stuff I dont!!!!

I don't mind being quoted but try doing it correctly. This is probably why no one listens to you. You seem to bend things that are not exactly true no wonder you keep the company you do. Plus I don't care one way of the other if you agree of not. Make a request or answer questions without attempting a personal agenda to just irritate people and you might get some positive responses once in a while.

T0yman wrote:
I and several other sysops like handing out the maps to players.

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Last edited by T0yman on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:36 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
T0yman wrote:
TheButcher wrote:
Edit: I also have my own server toy, so stop using the phrase "all us sysops really agree" Cause alot of the the stuff I dont!!!!

I don't mind being quoted but try doing it correctly. This is probably why no one listens to you. You seem to bend things that are not exactly true no wonder you keep the company you do. Plus I don't care one way of the other if you agree of not. Make request or answer question without attempting a personal agenda and you might get some positive responses once in a while.

T0yman wrote:
I and several other sysops like handing out the maps to players.



Your right I didnt quote it verbatim but I will now.

Toyman wrote: "We (Sysops) run all different styles of games and would just like an option to help players get a map without grinding away for several hours."


Iam sorry Iam part of that "WE" I dont see that option being very useful!!! Matter of fact I already explained "MY" thought on it:]

Edit: let me rephrase, If you think that option is fine, so be it, but personally debugging the edit is little more important in my eyes!

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Last edited by TheButcher on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:45 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
All of your concerns should be voiced to the gameop who chooses to use these settings, if they open their games to you at all. Is it really reasonable for me to respond to gameops who request these features with the answer "I don't want to add that because I don't think you can be trusted to use it"? That's really not for me or anyone else to say. Some gameops will create games that lead to the kinds of results that you suggest, some will not. Why should I decide what options they have? I won't tell you what kind of games you can play, and I don't want to tell gameops what kind of games they can run. If I get a lot of interest in a feature and I feel I can implement it, I'll do it, even if it does allow some gameops to make bad decisions in configuring their games. I'm sure you've been around this game long enough to know that there have been ample ways for a gameop to screw up his/her games. Gary and I talked about that back in the early 90s. It's kind of a fact of life for TW ops.

BTW, the question I asked was whether it would effect scripts if I changed "Torpedo" to "Missile". I didn't have my mind set on an answer to that. All I wanted to know was, among the scripters on this site, is this word commonly used in scripts and would it break anything if I change it? Everything else is a tangent that has nothing to do with that question. I hardly think changing this one word would cause the entire TW scene to implode, yet for some reason, it created a major uproar among a certain highly sensitive group in here.

I don't let T0yman and Cruncher speak for other gameops, but I also don't let you and Big D speak for all players and gameops. You have your viewpoint, but it's just one of many. You won't see those who are pleased with the work I'm doing because this forum is still viewed by many as a hostile place. I wonder why...

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:47 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
TheButcher wrote:
Toyman wrote: "We (Sysops) run all different styles of games and would just like an option to help players get a map without grinding away for several hours."


Iam sorry Iam part of that "WE" I dont see that option being very useful!!! Matter of fact I already explained "MY" thought on it:]

Well let me explain it to you (AGAIN), you run different game styles than I do, Vid runs different ones from me. So that would be "WE" all run different style games. That is why I ask for a toggle and not a hard coded change. Your not losing anything so not sure why the confrontation, just leave it defaulted "off".

EDIT: I have made several requests that did not get accepted, I like putting ideas out and watching the feedback. If the request doesn't get implemented I just move on to something else. Not sit in a corner and whine about it. Good things come from brainstorming.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:53 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
John Pritchett wrote:
It's actually a goal of mine for gameops to be able to turn their sites into something completely unique if they choose to.


Understood. Even though you asked a question, you really didn't want it answered.


Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:10 pm
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Unread post Re: Photon Missile vs Photon Torpedo
Big D, I asked whether it would be safe to change "Torpedo" to "Missile". I do want it answered. Based on T0yman's advice, I think it's best left alone.

Did you forget what my question was? I don't know that you had anything to say about that at all in this entire thread.

I didn't ask for input on whether I should be adding more customization features to this game. I don't want your input on that. If there's anything I know about TW, it's that most gameops want to be able to customize their games.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:21 am
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