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| Limpits & Limpit Actions http://classictw.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=33356 |
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| Author: | Vid Kid [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Old way limpits work : You Exit/Enter the game or a sector and a limpit attaches , but only one. So in the old days players would attach a personal limpit from their corpie and the ship would not except another till that first one was removed (scrubbed at class0/9) This was a bug or flaw in the concept. The current way limpits work : You Exit/Enter the game or a sector and a limpit would attach. So doing this over and over would just pick up all the limpits in that sector. (without the need to scrubb). Proposed fix : You Exit/Enter the game or a sector and a limpit attaches , but only one. meaning : only one from that player or corp till you scrubb or pick up someone elses. This way you could not clear a sector of limpits without the cost of scrubbing at class0/9 or picking up someone elses limpits. This will restore the concept of what the limpits were intended to do. Comments welcomed , Fix requested ... Vid Kid/CareTaker |
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| Author: | Mongoose [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
I like this idea a lot. |
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| Author: | Cruncher [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Vid Kid wrote: Old way limpits work : meaning : only one from that player or corp till you scrubb or pick up someone elses. This way you could not clear a sector of limpits without the cost of scrubbing at class0/9 or picking up someone elses limpits. This will restore the concept of what the limpits were intended to do. Comments welcomed , Fix requested ... Vid Kid/CareTaker I like the old limpet behavior best myself, but the old behavior When you had a limpet on you could not pick-up another. If you had one it was stuck to your hull like super glue only ever rarely falling off on it's own. They could only be removed at SD then. Allowing them to be removed at all 0 ports as well is better for the red players. Knowing this, we would always protect ourselves from enemy limpets by keeping a corp mate's limpet attached. In essence making the purpose of the limpets null and void. When I have one on, I cannot pickup another until after I scrub this one off. Sounds good to me, now I can enter any enemy sector with their limpets and they will not know it unless I also have to deal with sector figs or armid mines. Skilled players won't take enemy limpets back to base with them. The most you can hope for is getting notification that someone is in your sector. If your have 250 Limpets, it's going to take them a little time to exit/enter to clear all of those mines. Hopefully that will give you enough time to catch them getting into mischief. That's one reason why in time limit games we can have a re-log penalty of up to 20 minutes for each fast exit/enter. As much as I like the old behavior, I think the current behavior is the best we can hope for with limpet mines. |
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| Author: | John Pritchett [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpets & Limpet Actions |
It's actually feasible to change the system so that the ship could carry multiple limpet mines. I agree with Vid, it would be unlikely that a Limpet would attach to a ship that already has a Limpet of the same owner. I would think they'd be smarter than that. But it shouldn't be necessary to knock one Limpet off to allow another to attach. Then even if you were carrying a Corpee's Limpet, you could still pick up someone else's Limpet. Even if you were carrying the Limpet of another non-Corpee player who you just happen to know and who will not act on the Limpet, which would be cheating, but certainly possible to do, you would still pick up another player's Limpet and carry around both. To me, that would be the ultimate fix for Limpets, since they've really never worked as intended. But I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to use this kind of Limpet logic for the current game. I figure a change like that would probably be more appropriate for TW v4 where an effort could be made to balance a number of changes like this rather than just throw them in there and expect gameops to find a balance. |
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| Author: | scolfax [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Yeah John I like that idea... but I also think that more than one person's mines should be able to be put into a sector as well. Sectors are very large portions of space and multiple players should be able to mine a single sector. With armids too not just limps. |
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| Author: | Cruncher [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpets & Limpet Actions |
John Pritchett wrote: It's actually feasible to change the system so that the ship could carry multiple limpet mines. I agree with Vid, it would be unlikely that a Limpet would attach to a ship that already has a Limpet of the same owner. I would think they'd be smarter than that. But it shouldn't be necessary to knock one Limpet off to allow another to attach. Then even if you were carrying a Corpee's Limpet, you could still pick up someone else's Limpet. Even if you were carrying the Limpet of another non-Corpee player who you just happen to know and who will not act on the Limpet, which would be cheating, but certainly possible to do, you would still pick up another player's Limpet and carry around both. To me, that would be the ultimate fix for Limpets, since they've really never worked as intended. But I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to use this kind of Limpet logic for the current game. I figure a change like that would probably be more appropriate for TW v4 where an effort could be made to balance a number of changes like this rather than just throw them in there and expect gameops to find a balance. We would just do and enter exit until we're carrying both limpets belonging to a corp mate. If you make the number of limpets available to attach much greater, then the cost of removal will increase with the number of limpets needed to be removed? You can't sell a ship without having to pay for the limpet removal first, or the cost of removal is deducted from the sale price of the ship. Would the cost of removal be a one time fee for any number of limpets or a fee for each limpet? These are just a few of the things that jump to mind when you talk about the capability for a ship to carry 2 limpets belonging to different players or corps. |
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| Author: | Mongoose [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
I like Vid's original idea best because it still allows for the smart tactic of using a corpie's limpet to tell when you've picked up someone else's, while eliminating reentering the game as a cheap method of clearing an enemy sector. Limpets cost a lot, and clearing them should cost a lot. |
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| Author: | Muss [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
problem with just clearing 1 limpet at a time.. I would be the first to lay hundreds of limps per sector throughout the universe so everyone else would have one hell of a time laying any at all. I would take 250 trips back and forth to a class 0 ??? If you went this route.. a lower limper per sector max should be allowed also. |
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| Author: | Vid Kid [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Muss wrote: problem with just clearing 1 limpet at a time.. I would be the first to lay hundreds of limps per sector throughout the universe so everyone else would have one hell of a time laying any at all. I would take 250 trips back and forth to a class 0 ??? If you went this route.. a lower limper per sector max should be allowed also. Very good point Muss , I did not think of that .. first one out laying them has a bit of an advantage .. unless aliens were included with the ability to pickup/clear limpits as well. This puts a whole new twist on the limpit function. Keep going , good ideas .. lets see what else someone may come up with. Vid |
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| Author: | Mongoose [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Muss wrote: I would be the first to lay hundreds of limps per sector throughout the universe so everyone else would have one hell of a time laying any at all. If you had the money to do that, I'd say you already won the game. |
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| Author: | Big D [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Mongoose wrote: Muss wrote: I would be the first to lay hundreds of limps per sector throughout the universe so everyone else would have one hell of a time laying any at all. If you had the money to do that, I'd say you already won the game. That all depends on what level of play you are considering. You are evidently talking about a turn game somewhat stock. I'm sure Muss is on a different train of thought, like unlimited turn high cashing edit like Sub Zero. The only way to stop what Muss is talking about is to make the cost of limpets very high in sync with the type of edit it is, OR limit each player/corp to a certain amount of limpets say 1000 per player and/or (1000 times the amount of corp members). A 5 man corp could lay 5000 another words. I don't believe I'm even making suggestions for V2. laff |
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| Author: | Mongoose [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Of course, But in an unlim, the turn cost of going back to a class 0 to scrub each limpet would also be irrelevant. And considering that exit/enter takes much longer than it used to, scrubbing without exit/enter might actually be faster. There really is no down side to Vid's suggestion. |
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| Author: | Helix [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Mongoose wrote: Of course, But in an unlim, the turn cost of going back to a class 0 to scrub each limpet would also be irrelevant. And considering that exit/enter takes much longer than it used to, scrubbing without exit/enter might actually be faster. There really is no down side to Vid's suggestion. None except that it changes game play. So it becomes an option that no one uses. H |
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| Author: | Mongoose [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Yes, it changes game play... by fixing a fundamental design flaw in the way limpets work. Stock turns game or not, you shouldn't be able to clear multiple limpets without expending a single turn and without paying to scrub any of them except the last one. |
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| Author: | Vid Kid [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limpits & Limpit Actions |
Big D wrote: Mongoose wrote: Muss wrote: I would be the first to lay hundreds of limps per sector throughout the universe so everyone else would have one hell of a time laying any at all. If you had the money to do that, I'd say you already won the game. That all depends on what level of play you are considering. You are evidently talking about a turn game somewhat stock. I'm sure Muss is on a different train of thought, like unlimited turn high cashing edit like Sub Zero. The only way to stop what Muss is talking about is to make the cost of limpets very high in sync with the type of edit it is, OR limit each player/corp to a certain amount of limpets say 1000 per player and/or (1000 times the amount of corp members). A 5 man corp could lay 5000 another words. I don't believe I'm even making suggestions for V2. laff Yes it is unbelievable that you are helping with a suggestion on this version .. but let me be the first to say Another good suggestion , to place a limit on limps with that option .. a good suggestion that goes hand in hand with what I suggest. |
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