catching information sharing
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Astrochimp
Ensign
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am Posts: 210
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 catching information sharing
Mob wrote: Astrochimp wrote: Mob wrote: Astrochipm wrote: Mob wrote: A decent sysop can see if its MC. How? We haven't even properly defined MC. If one corp gives a sector number to another corp, is that MC? How does a sysop know that it's happened? MC should be defined as the sysop decides. Again I think we are all smart enough to say what a basic MC situation is. Lets not all play dumb. I'm sure not smart enough, unless they are obvious about it... the only way i'd be 'smart enough' is if I could eavesdrop their icq conversations and whatnot. Wrong, logs only play a small part of catching someone. Like I said before just because it isn't in the log doesn't mean your not breaking a rule. I didn't say that, I said you can't catch them if they're careful. Unless you're saying you can hear their communication. For every time you caught someone, there are twenty times they got away with it. Every time they got away with it, they gained an advantage over the honest ones.
_________________ I'm a monkey and I have mad monkey skills for hire. https://codemonkeyfromspace.com
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:47 pm |
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Kaus
Gameop
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am Posts: 1050 Location: USA
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 Re: catching information sharing
What is the point of even defining it? For what purpose?
If you say no info sharing, players can take it on other mediums like icq.
No asset sharing, harder to hide but nowhere near impossible. Move small pieces instead of large
Acting together? Please; Butcher is right when there is blood in the water the sharks will circle. Its super easy to yell mega when your losing.
The game is about asset's, speaking from experiance we have activly held back on invading corps just waiting for the other corp to attack and often fail first.
Allot like subspace crawling is it the most fair thing.... No
But it happens, its not a bug and if you happen to be on the recieving side it sucks to be you.
Its actually common place for people to work together to defeat larger enemies, unless the game activly prevents it like in most FPS games. An exmple was during vanilla wow the guild i was in often worked with the horde to kill world dragons because a group of 40 could not do it back then. We took turns defeating a larger enemy even if it was not the most "ethical" way of defeating a boss designed to be near unbeatable.
_________________ Dark Dominion TWGS Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23 ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=- "This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:53 pm |
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Astrochimp
Ensign
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am Posts: 210
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 Re: catching information sharing
Kaus wrote: What is the point of even defining it? For what purpose?
You only need to define it if you make a rule against it. If there's no rule there's no problem. Kaus wrote: Allot like subspace crawling is it the most fair thing.... No
But it happens, its not a bug and if you happen to be on the recieving side it sucks to be you. I share your opinion, but it sounds like others disagree and will continue to try to enforce it. In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it.
_________________ I'm a monkey and I have mad monkey skills for hire. https://codemonkeyfromspace.com
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:58 pm |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Astrochimp wrote: In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. Just say the rule is No Megacorping, only the dishonest will need a definition. Its not "In such cases....", its "In every case...". H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:05 pm |
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Kaus
Gameop
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am Posts: 1050 Location: USA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Astrochimp wrote: Kaus wrote: What is the point of even defining it? For what purpose?
You only need to define it if you make a rule against it. If there's no rule there's no problem. Kaus wrote: Allot like subspace crawling is it the most fair thing.... No
But it happens, its not a bug and if you happen to be on the recieving side it sucks to be you. I share your opinion, but it sounds like others disagree and will continue to try to enforce it. In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. You cant enforce a no MC rule, there is no un-biased way. Its all strategy in the right context. We all start presumably at the same time, we mostly all sit afk with active bots recording chatter. If say on day 3 someone attempts to invade corp A but fails. Its quite easy to decide to also attack corp A as your fairly sure their still weak and the other corp likely will also have used many assets in the process. Lets say I'm the invading but failed corp. is it MC if i tell someone over icq, etc where they are? Or is it good strategy because i want to bring there assets to my level . What if I didnt actually invade but know that corp C is weaker than A and will fail. Wouldnt it be good tactics to set them up for failure? I mean the point of the game is to win and in my book short of bugs that's by any means possible. Including breaking your scripts with a cby command. Sharing tactical information if it benefits me. Or temporary truces because some corp has turtled the entire game.
_________________ Dark Dominion TWGS Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23 ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=- "This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."
Last edited by Kaus on Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:06 pm |
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Astrochimp
Ensign
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am Posts: 210
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 Re: catching information sharing
Helix wrote: Astrochimp wrote: In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. Just say the rule is No Megacorping, only the dishonest will need a definition. Its not "In such cases....", its "In every case...". I don't get what you're saying. To me, information sharing is not megacorping, but I think to others it is. If you say no megacorping, people need to know your definition of megacorping.
_________________ I'm a monkey and I have mad monkey skills for hire. https://codemonkeyfromspace.com
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:09 pm |
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Runaway Proton
Gameop
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1737 Location: USA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Helix wrote: Astrochimp wrote: In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. Just say the rule is No Megacorping, only the dishonest will need a definition. Its not "In such cases....", its "In every case...". H I like that H, plain, simple, and to the point 
_________________ American soldiers don't fight because they hate what's in front of them...they fight because they love what's behind them. http://www.runawayproton.com <-- Expired telnet://runawayproton.dyndns.org:223 V2.20b Games <-- Expired http://www.twsubspace.com <-- Expired Teamspeak 3 50.23.212.53:4196 <-- Expired Just a has been now.
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:10 pm |
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Astrochimp
Ensign
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am Posts: 210
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 Re: catching information sharing
Runaway Proton wrote: Helix wrote: Astrochimp wrote: In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. Just say the rule is No Megacorping, only the dishonest will need a definition. Its not "In such cases....", its "In every case...". H I like that H, plain, simple, and to the point  So it would be easy to apply this rule to, say, the current situation?
_________________ I'm a monkey and I have mad monkey skills for hire. https://codemonkeyfromspace.com
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:12 pm |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Astrochimp wrote: Runaway Proton wrote: Helix wrote: Astrochimp wrote: In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. Just say the rule is No Megacorping, only the dishonest will need a definition. Its not "In such cases....", its "In every case...". H I like that H, plain, simple, and to the point  So it would be easy to apply this rule to, say, the current situation? That question is moot, there is no rule about megacorping in this BOTE H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:13 pm |
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Runaway Proton
Gameop
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1737 Location: USA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Kaus wrote: Astrochimp wrote: Kaus wrote: What is the point of even defining it? For what purpose?
You only need to define it if you make a rule against it. If there's no rule there's no problem. Kaus wrote: Allot like subspace crawling is it the most fair thing.... No
But it happens, its not a bug and if you happen to be on the recieving side it sucks to be you. I share your opinion, but it sounds like others disagree and will continue to try to enforce it. In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. You cant enforce a no MC rule, there is no un-biased way. Its all strategy in the right context. We all start presumably at the same time, we mostly all sit afk with active bots recording chatter. If say on day 3 someone attempts to invade corp A but fails. Its quite easy to decide to also attack corp A as your fairly sure their still weak and the other corp likely will also have used many assets in the process. Lets say I'm the invading but failed corp. is it MC if i tell someone over icq, etc where they are? Or is it good strategy because i want to bring there assets to my level . What if I didnt actually invade but know that corp C is weaker than A and will fail. Wouldnt it be good tactics to set them up for failure? I mean the point of the game is to win and in my book short of bugs that's by any means possible. Including breaking your scripts with a cby command. Sharing tactical information if it benefits me. Or temporary truces because some corp has turtled the entire game. This has been my point all along, it's common place and good stratagy. The way you describe it here is not any form of MC or sharing, it's just stragy plain and simple. But as soon as you "call in another corp" or "send a location" (other than what's aready in the logs) then it's a MC and if there is a no MC rule, then it's been busted.
_________________ American soldiers don't fight because they hate what's in front of them...they fight because they love what's behind them. http://www.runawayproton.com <-- Expired telnet://runawayproton.dyndns.org:223 V2.20b Games <-- Expired http://www.twsubspace.com <-- Expired Teamspeak 3 50.23.212.53:4196 <-- Expired Just a has been now.
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:14 pm |
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Runaway Proton
Gameop
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1737 Location: USA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Astrochimp wrote: So it would be easy to apply this rule to, say, the current situation? As H already said, there was no rule, so the question is dead. We need to move away from that for the time as it gets to heated to make any form of conclusion.
_________________ American soldiers don't fight because they hate what's in front of them...they fight because they love what's behind them. http://www.runawayproton.com <-- Expired telnet://runawayproton.dyndns.org:223 V2.20b Games <-- Expired http://www.twsubspace.com <-- Expired Teamspeak 3 50.23.212.53:4196 <-- Expired Just a has been now.
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:16 pm |
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Astrochimp
Ensign
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am Posts: 210
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 Re: catching information sharing
Helix wrote: Astrochimp wrote: Runaway Proton wrote: Helix wrote: Astrochimp wrote: In such cases, the honest ones will follow the rule, and the dishonest ones will continue to gain advantage by not following it. Just say the rule is No Megacorping, only the dishonest will need a definition. Its not "In such cases....", its "In every case...". H I like that H, plain, simple, and to the point  So it would be easy to apply this rule to, say, the current situation? That question is moot, there is no rule about megacorping in this BOTE H Oh. For some reason I'd figured there was some kind of rule, because of all the debate... In this case, it's easy for RP.
_________________ I'm a monkey and I have mad monkey skills for hire. https://codemonkeyfromspace.com
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:17 pm |
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Runaway Proton
Gameop
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1737 Location: USA
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 Re: catching information sharing
Yes, in this case it is easy, But in past games I've seen it come to play, and I'm sure in future games as well. It's easy for two corps to work together in a game when there's no rule against it, and the looser of that effort is always gonna cry in some way shape of form. The purpose of this discussion was to determine some way for a sysop to gauge what is and isn't MC'ing and how to prove it. In my oppinion, and the way it would be run on my site if I were to incorporate a no MC or Asset Sharing rule, is that if two teams are working for a common interest, it's a MC. So that being said, a CEO knowing of such rule, should see that if an attack happens in a game, let them finish before you enter into said attack. If the logs show, or you're able to determine where this attack was held, and you care to move in after and mop up, that's good stratagy. But if there is evidence of the two teams sharing information, or teaming up, they'd both be disqualified.
_________________ American soldiers don't fight because they hate what's in front of them...they fight because they love what's behind them. http://www.runawayproton.com <-- Expired telnet://runawayproton.dyndns.org:223 V2.20b Games <-- Expired http://www.twsubspace.com <-- Expired Teamspeak 3 50.23.212.53:4196 <-- Expired Just a has been now.
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:23 pm |
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Comet
Commander
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:00 am Posts: 1159
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 Re: catching information sharing
Anyone remember that guy CC Bee? This totally has to do with him!
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:25 pm |
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Astrochimp
Ensign
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:41 am Posts: 210
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 Re: catching information sharing
Runaway Proton wrote: In my oppinion, and the way it would be run on my site if I were to incorporate a no MC or Asset Sharing rule, is that if two teams are working for a common interest, it's a MC. So that being said, a CEO knowing of such rule, should see that if an attack happens in a game, let them finish before you enter into said attack. If the logs show, or you're able to determine where this attack was held, and you care to move in after and mop up, that's good stratagy. But if there is evidence of the two teams sharing information, or teaming up, they'd both be disqualified. Ouch. All that sounds like an excellent argument for NOT implementing such a rule. Sounds so complicated and difficult to police.
_________________ I'm a monkey and I have mad monkey skills for hire. https://codemonkeyfromspace.com
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| Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:26 pm |
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