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so when did it become okay...
https://classictw.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34820
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Author:  Shadow2 [ Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  so when did it become okay...

To invade and destroy your opponents, in a two team game with 4+ players on each team and both fairly established, because a server outage knocked them all offline at the same time and two of your guys happened to be on at 3am when it happened?

There are all sorts of tactics that some people consider to be crossing the line; for some it's things like buyouts or blowing dock, apparently for some it's using scripts at all (welcome to 1988 guys!) but this seems to be a recent, disturbing trend. It happened multiple times in the tournament and just happened in another game I was in.

Seriously?

Author:  Cruncher [ Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Yeah, poor sportsmanship. Can't beat the 24/7 scripts so they have to take advantage of power outages etc.

In the tournament I think my team suffered the most from this sort of tactic. Opportunistic, but a tactic none the less. Only, we didn't complain. It's just a part of the game as much as we might not want to admit it. If the shoe were on the other foot, I can't say that we wouldn't have taken advantage of the situation ourselves.

Such is TW...

Author:  Shadow2 [ Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Well, you could always ban it, just as you could ban attacking with planets, since after all that's part of the game too. Oh wait... that's been tried. Right, my bad.

Author:  Hammer_2 [ Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Just for the record Shadow, I'm not in that game, I think gloom (you?) was accusing me of being involved in that on another game.

However, I'd like to say it's completely acceptable to use that tactic.

If it's acceptable to not be there and let a script that most of us didn't write or even know how it works "play" for you, then its acceptable to do a lot of things.

It's acceptable re-write said script to actually reconnect successfully. For instance if only your corp was stuck offline only but I doubt they were, so just reconnect and defend, your at no disadvantage. You chose to be asleep, not fix your script, or whatever.

It's a bit like the fact I can't effectively can't grid most games most of the time because of my ping. Other's however I can pretty much never hit with a photon because of their quick ping. To me that sucks, but what do I do?

We've all agreed and made this game about the technology and NOT the game.. So upgrade your tech, get a better ping, re-write your scripts.

Don't complain when one tiny aspect of the way we've changed the game doesn't work for you.

p.s. I'll continue to grid when everyone gets knocked offline. Why shouldn't I?? I live in a different timezone and I'll exploit that fact since the games been changed that way.

As for Crunchers team: That was a bug and a server error and unfortunate. That probably shouldn't have happened but the attacking forces had moved in to attack, they got kicked offline, so I assume they were attacking regardless (could be wrong).

Author:  Shadow2 [ Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Hammer_2 wrote:
Just for the record Shadow, I'm not in that game, I think gloom (you?) was accusing me of being involved in that on another game.

However, I'd like to say it's completely acceptable to use that tactic.


Weren't you one of those complaining about ship buyouts and blowing ports? Or was that Cruncher?

I'm not a fan of "some tactics are okay and some aren't." If you're saying that all tactics are OK, then cool. Let's play that way. I'm on board.

Author:  Hammer_2 [ Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Shadow2 wrote:

Weren't you one of those complaining about ship buyouts and blowing ports? Or was that Cruncher?

I'm not a fan of "some tactics are okay and some aren't." If you're saying that all tactics are OK, then cool. Let's play that way. I'm on board.


Yeah not me, one of our plans in the recent tourney was to blow the dock mid game. Idea hopefully being to make a corp run out of photons then give us a chance to get a decent amount of gridding in over a 24 hour period.

I'm pretty much for anything goes except for serious bug usage or things outside the game like logging into a TWGS so no one else can connect.

I'm also happy to play on Crunchers server too with no planets as weapons, time limits etc. Or if two corps want to agree to no sector 1 killing I'm negotiable. I'm not that fussy but my preference is anything goes.

You want to buy all the ships, go for it, or blow the dock, or purchase all the planets etc.

Author:  Adept [ Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Shadow2 wrote:
To invade and destroy your opponents, in a two team game with 4+ players on each team and both fairly established, because a server outage knocked them all offline at the same time and two of your guys happened to be on at 3am when it happened?

There are all sorts of tactics that some people consider to be crossing the line; for some it's things like buyouts or blowing dock, apparently for some it's using scripts at all (welcome to 1988 guys!) but this seems to be a recent, disturbing trend. It happened multiple times in the tournament and just happened in another game I was in.

Seriously?


Yea sort of like sitting in Sector 1 in maxed out gold ship on a trigger kill macro, meanwhile a corpie is on a high quality pdrop script with a majority the universe gridded--and doing so immediately after a truce has ended--further noting that earlier that evening that corp had expended thousands of turns gridding over the competing corp, who held the understanding that there was a full day of truce left, so they ignored that tact for the time being?

But wait there is more, isn't this sort of like attacking the other corp immediately after truce has ended, when they did not even have a chance yet to really setup for an active game yet, because several of the corps players were AFK/at work? ...Or what about going offensive, while knowing full well that the other corp understood there to be one-day left to truce, because it was stated to be a 3-day truce, and yet your corp quietly keeps to itself the assertion that truce ended the moment the game showed day 3 (because that is always how they do it at the newbies playpen Ultimate TW), and itself is setup to both be attacked and to attack--all the while the other corp is completely passive, still prepping under the expectation of truce.

And, if this is in reference to the recent Battle Star DM, Corp 1 was actually not "well established" as Corp 2, as Corp 2 at that time held about 3/4 of the total game's assets and now owns about 99% of game's assets (less space mines all over the place.) Even after Corp 2 had decimated Corp 1, who still had 2 players of their own online at the time, Corp 1 still held 1/2 of its total assets. And now only a few days later, it holds an astonishing sum of assets, surpassing, double of what was held prior to the infamous attack on Corp 1. However, in any case when you instituted the tactic of doc-killing all bets were off, so stop crying about anything thereafter being fair or unfair, you practiced a petty, whimpy tactic. Deal with the consequences.

I will state in my opinion that Fed-watching on kill/cap scripts is a cheap, petty, whimpy tactic on par with planet and ship buyouts, or Terra jettisons (and these should be easily remedied by updates to game edit options, e.g., allowing players/corps to only own a number of ships or undeveloped planets at any given time, permit only for colonists to be placed on a planet or Terra or lost upon ship destruction; permit option for FedSpace or Sector-1 to remain as truce zones, or for returning players to reenter the game to a sector of their choosing or as per a new CN "Home Base" setting.)

But, ultimately, you will not hear Corp 2 whining about any of this, the games have been fun and fruitful. The Battle Star edit is awesome (though perhaps turns could be decreased, very time consuming managing that many turns on a daily basis--though seems also to be a fast edit, in consequence). Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galatica. Play on, hard!

P.S. Corp 2 is awesome--this is not only my opinion, but represents the totality of unbiased facts. :wink:

Author:  Cruncher [ Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Shadow2 wrote:
Well, you could always ban it, just as you could ban attacking with planets, since after all that's part of the game too. Oh wait... that's been tried. Right, my bad.


On my server I ban p-dropping in an attempt to create the TW experience we had before there were TWXProxy trigger scripts. Some people prefer that type of play, and I have settings that help to make this possible. That said, it's not "impossible" to p-drop with my settings, but whenever someone does, they are warned then banned if repeated.

There's only so much a sysop can do, and banning people from attacking others if they drop off-line isn't reasonable.

Author:  Cruncher [ Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Shadow2 wrote:
Hammer_2 wrote:
Just for the record Shadow, I'm not in that game, I think gloom (you?) was accusing me of being involved in that on another game.

However, I'd like to say it's completely acceptable to use that tactic.


Weren't you one of those complaining about ship buyouts and blowing ports? Or was that Cruncher?

I'm not a fan of "some tactics are okay and some aren't." If you're saying that all tactics are OK, then cool. Let's play that way. I'm on board.


I never complained about anything during the tournament.

Author:  Micro [ Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Lt. Commander Worf: "In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory."

Servers drop offline... Public scripts don't re-log... If I had been at keys... I would have taken advantage of it... so I'm not going to complain about being on the receiving end...

Dockkill is standard practice and commonly used at Terra and Stardock... but it only works on newbs... Learn how to use Terra Kit... and they won't be able to hit you... You can also use Dock Kit to get in and out of dock if you aren't fedsafe...

Author:  Star Killer [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Shadow2 wrote:
To invade and destroy your opponents, in a two team game with 4+ players on each team and both fairly established, because a server outage knocked them all offline at the same time and two of your guys happened to be on at 3am when it happened?

There are all sorts of tactics that some people consider to be crossing the line; for some it's things like buyouts or blowing dock, apparently for some it's using scripts at all (welcome to 1988 guys!) but this seems to be a recent, disturbing trend. It happened multiple times in the tournament and just happened in another game I was in.

Seriously?


Sorry Im out of town and am just catching up.... I take it this was my server? how offen is it dropping? I was hoping this problem was getting better... seams like maybe its getting worse...

Author:  Hammer_2 [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Star Killer wrote:

Sorry Im out of town and am just catching up.... I take it this was my server? how offen is it dropping? I was hoping this problem was getting better... seams like maybe its getting worse...


Think it only happened once while you were away and once or twice just before you left.

Hmm that being said i've not been on much over the weekend so may have missed any additional.

Author:  Adept [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

I have been on a lot over the last several days, working on a script, meanwhile doing planet maintenance and have not noticed any connection issues. I even left a planet loaded with products run on a WPPT and buydown script while I slept came back that evening and it was still going strong.

Author:  CBYNot [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

Sounds pretty weak to me Shadow. But you're a badass mofo that gets tons of victories by immediately blockading fedspace 10 minutes into a game, right? And that's such an awesome victory!

You have every right to to complain about cheap tactics. And that doesn't make you a hypocrite. At all.

/sarcasm.

Seriously, though, just change your name already. Everyone hates you for that crap, and its *much cheaper than invading during an outage. At least in that case, there was a whole game played and you didn't rob everyone else of their enjoyment and make the sysop rebang.

Plus, if its even a moderately good corp they have auto-relog enabled or at least one player at keys at all times who will dive right back in and fend off the invasion. Perhaps even use to their advantage.

Author:  Shadow2 [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so when did it become okay...

CBYNot wrote:
Sounds pretty weak to me Shadow. But you're a badass mofo that gets tons of victories by immediately blockading fedspace 10 minutes into a game, right? And that's such an awesome victory!

You have every right to to complain about cheap tactics. And that doesn't make you a hypocrite. At all.


Oh right, like you have any room to talk.

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