quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

MSDE 2K requires a Microsoft license to use. Either Visual Studio or MS-Office.


MSDE only requires a license to develop to and distribute MSDE databases. If it required a license to use it wouldn't be worth anything. The whole reason for MSDE is so you can develop limited version applications that scale/translate to full MSSQL without any code changes. This is good for trial versions of software, smaller database needs, etc. Of course, there's no way to automate the patching that would be required from time to time for MSDE... so you'd have a lot of pissed off people once the next slammer variant came across and blasted everyone not at the highest patch level.

But generally I love MSDE even with all those problems. It performs well and you can use stored procedures... which is a heck of a lot better tha MySQL IMHO. Of course I prefer Microsoft over *Nix any day -- and capitalism over communism... hehehe... [I know that will get a response... ]

hahaha - I'm not going to take that bait... mostly because I owe the fact that I have a career to my specialization on a particular Microsoft product line. That doesn't keep me from loving Linux however.

Anyway, thanks for clearing up the MSDE stuff. I didn't think OB's statement was true but I was too lazy to research it. I prefer MSDE over MySQL as well... not due to a dislike of *nix but the fact that it's powerful, stable, and has more features (such as stored procs).

I still think that if TWGS was to move to a DB platform, that an ODBC connector would be the way to go. That way people like you and I could use MSDE, and others could use MySQL (which runs well on Win2k also), or whatever floats their boat. ^_^

quote:Originally posted by Grazhoppa

Hrm-

Might wanna get ahold of mad hatter- From what I understand, he's been able to "enhance" the game in ways I never thought possible... That's if he hasn't disappeared again We used to talk alot, but not since I returned...

graz


What hatter done was really simple..
.. But hatter wont share the data with anyone (I done tried to get it)..
I wanted it for other reasons than simply modifying the game.. I wanted to try and find the values to change to let the game time recycle off of 1 week instead of 1 day.. anyhow..
It doesnt take much to mod the files and get some of the numbers above tedits max

quote:Originally posted by Grazhoppa

I don't know what kind of reply your going to get from them, after all your talking about changing their code, without their consent... Kinda like sewing a kids arm to his face, his parents won't be happy

So they really use software to control a tank? Wow, now all we have to develop is anti tank software, and we can fire the military, just let the machines hack it out

Graz


Hey, I'm writing the script to that movie!

I shall call it...Terminator 4: The Machines Are Back And They Are Pissed Off

(copyright ?!?) Kivas Fajo [:o)]

Actually read the MSDE Rights and Use of Redistribution:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howto ... rights.asp

Also the Appropriate Uses of MSDE FAQ:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp

You can download it for free and use it for free by registering, but you have to agree to the EULA.

I apolgize, it used to be only useable and redistributable if you owned a MS Product it was licensed to work with. Apparently that changed over the past few years. Now you can use it for free if you register with Microsoft. The key being registration. Looks like it was changed in 2003, last I read about it it was 2001.

We forgive you orion, but DONT DO IT AGAIN!!!!

hehe
graz

Well ok, it good to see we're discussing. It seems clear to me that Trade Wars is going a few places.

1st and seemingly most important is the implementation of this database business. You guys lost me there for a while but apprently the best solution is a flexible and free database, ill leave which up to the people who know thier stuff.

2nd and almost as important is the script/bot/macro division. i was of the camp against scripts and the sort, but that was mainly for reasons pretaining to availibility, usability, and... Free-ability? I wanted to do it by hand cause that was the real game and i didnt know where to get/how to use scripts and i didnt want to pay for it. I've used swath a whiles back but i dont feel like paying for it again just to have it advertise to everyone that im using it.
But its obvious now that automation is here to stay and we should embrace it like any new technology. We should work to make better and easier to use scripts and bots, and incorporate them into to the game as much as possble. Maybe buying a robot could be made part of the game, a robot which is programmable and could use your scripts. Enough of this proxy crap, we should try to intergrate automation as much as possible into the game of trade wars. Its the future! Are space traders gonna navigate by hand and neogate in person? If we could factor in robots and scripts into the balence of trade wars, we could bring the gameplay to a new level. It could be a whole new game.

3rd Money (maybe most important of all) how do you guys at eis make money? off twgs registration money? ok thats a good source, but why make your own trade wars server? lets be realistic, its an acient relic thats favored by people who know it. Its an arachic text-based delicacy (no offense; i love the game madly, but this is reality we're living in). The learning curve is through the roof and the pay off is a game you've got to play everyday almost 24-7 to stay competive in. If someone comes in with photons 'ablazin and you're not online, you're screwed. Or its these frickin star trek rip-off alien robots that play 24-7 and trade away all the availible products and mess with your fighters all the time. The game should take a more developed and subsistant nature. Games should go on for a long time and players could either battle it out or just contribute the the flow of the universe. Right now trade wars to too much of an arena. A game is banged for players to come in a run everything and then the universe is rebanged. Thats fine for some game types, maybe there could be a count down to some terrible event (a massive alien invasion, a huge shower of meteors, just the the universe's end). But there should be a long lasting, subsistant game type as well. Something that would be fun to play in, just because your part of it.
That way, servers could charge players to play the game and come to thier webiste and use thier services. because right now there is little incentive for most people host free games. Maybe servers could have a few free games and then have a few more specialized and worth while games to pay for (and that bring us back to point one, the database implementation for beter customization (such a nice little cycle)).

Thats where it looks like trade wars should be going. Maybe better intergration with html (like displaying pictures and read outs from the game) is a another good direction, but this game has got to evolve to the next step if its going to survive. And a good flow of income for more programmers and support is the most crucial goal right now.

Interesting, have scripts built into the TWGS server. Maybe sell them at the Stardock as computer upgrades and access them from the computer? Each ship will need its own scripts.

One downside to this is the TW Helper people won't like it, it will take business away from them. It seems that the TW Helper and Script Writers tend to make some good money selling their products as there are more players than servers.

Actually, EIS could write plug-ins for TWGS that do certain things, like what you described, in the game and sell them seperately. Like control an alien invasion of player's planets. Have a random metetor shower. Have a plug-in that plays a player account using AI that players must compete against, call it "Beat the bot". Have a wondering planet plug-in. Have a Borg plug-in that assumilates sector figs and attacks players and planets it finds, have it send out messages like "Resitance is futile, you will be assimulated" etc. Have a Q being plug-in that adds or removes things from a random player account when a player logs on. Charge $15USD to $35USD or something for each plug-in.

I like the "countdown to random event" idea a LOT. You only have two weeks before the Magog invasion!

EIS seems to be bogged down with something (?), so I think the only way you'd ever see add-ins like this is for the backend to be opened up.

Your suggestions are appreciated, and I know John has considered many different suggestions from many different people. You may want to back off a bit on your tone. While your suggestions are appreciated, they are in no way the only way to do things, nor are they necessarily the direction that John wants this game to go. You come off as dictating what needs to be done instead of suggesting, which is likely to make a few peoples' tempers flare The way that I understand it, the goal of future version of this game is to strike a middle ground that implements new ideas without changing the sort of game it is. Too drastic of a change, and it is no longer the same game, and you'll probably alienate the current players.

I agree that the heart of the game needs to remain the same. I was simply suggesting (though I didn't mean to suggest this is the ONLY way... despite using that wording ) that the best way to accomplish this is to open development of the game to more parties. ONE way to accomplish this would be to open the back-end data for the game. The mods and enhancements which could then be written would be limitless!

I guess that's my focus because it's what I do every day -- work on the back end of existing systems (SQL-based financial systems to be specific) to make them do something new, or something better. That's why I seem to have the one-track mind. It was not meant to offend anyone. ^_^

I love TW and will hopefully continue to run my server for years to come. I just hope that in those years to come we see new features, as well as fixes for current issues. It's been nearly two years since the last public revision was released. I'm sure there are many good reasons for this, but the silence can be somewhat deafening.

I do not mean to be too critical or offend anyone. However these forums seem to be the best place to voice these concerns and threads such as this one in regard to the future of TW are very good places to start.

Best regards.

Anyone know what teh longest thread EVER on EIS has been? I've never seen one with 3 pages before...

OUCH! Whiplash from the abrupt topic change. This thread isn't even close I'm sure. A quick look around the system found this one: http://www.eisonline.com/twforum/topic. ... C_ID=11559 which is FIVE pages long... and it's possible that's not the longest one either.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

Your suggestions are appreciated, and I know John has considered many different suggestions from many different people. You may want to back off a bit on your tone. While your suggestions are appreciated, they are in no way the only way to do things, nor are they necessarily the direction that John wants this game to go. You come off as dictating what needs to be done instead of suggesting, which is likely to make a few peoples' tempers flare The way that I understand it, the goal of future version of this game is to strike a middle ground that implements new ideas without changing the sort of game it is. Too drastic of a change, and it is no longer the same game, and you'll probably alienate the current players.


If this was directed at me, I only meant it as a suggestion. There was no intention of dictating to JP what he should do with the game.

I understand that there is a formula to follow, that formula is the classic gameplay of Tradewars. In no way did I suggest that the formula be changed, only that I suggested that things should be added to the game to make it better for GameOps and Developers to interface with it. Also a suggestion was the plug-in programs that the old BBS TW2002 used to have. Again, just suggestions, not actual dictations.

It was directed mostly at ColdLine, but in general at everyone. By all means, please keep the ideas flowing. It's those ideas of improvement that have been what has made trade wars great, in my opinion. I just wanted to remind people to keep them as suggestions and not as directives