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 TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data 
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Sergeant Major

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Unread post TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Well, I bit the bullet and started experimenting with some TWX scripts and even have two now working under the bot. From what I can tell, TWX does not store bust information and neither does mombot. I guess most users are doing team SSD type stuff so the bust data is just handled by the script that is running the team SS[TD]. But for solo play I would like to have this stuff and while Swath is keeping this for me, I'd like my TWX scripts to have access to it. So where do you mombot jockeys generally keep this data? If you say you write it down in a notebook I am going to be very disappointed.
Same question for MCIC numbers. I can read the file that EP_Haggle writes, but it looks like there is also information stored outside of that because mombot displays it even if there is no EP_Haggle file. (Please tell me it is not in that mombot negotiation file.)
Thanks,
Deign


Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:55 am
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Lieutenant J.G.

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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
I think most of that data is stored in sector params - setSectorParameter getSectorParameter

I've not played for a while and have completely gone blank on the standard command in mombot.

However if you get a list of sector params for sector 2 I bet you will find your last bust sector; perhaps >param 2

MCIC will be stored on a per sector basis. EP's script stores many vars on mcic. If you list all sector params for a sector you traded at using EP's it'll have a list of
MCIC-EQU+
MCIC-EQU- etc.

Similar with bust data.. all scripts should be using getSectorParameter and setSectorParameter to store that to avoid busts. So you can switch between scripts easily. Not a hard one to 'improve' on some of those public scripts out there that assume pen and paper.

Mombot I believe also stores MCIC for equipment from the NEG command.. however the public version may just store it as "MCIC". Which isn't very useful since each port has three products... and in some games you might want to trade fuel/orgs.


Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:04 pm
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Mombot and other scripts also store various data in the main TWX directory (i.e. _MOM_GameA.ships). These are generally read into an array:

readToArray figlist.txt $figArray

They also store game settings and a lot of other data in the config file with saveVar / loadVar.

Busts are not currently tracked by TWX or MOMBOT. Various scripts, including MOMBOT WSST, store busts as described by Hammer. MOMBOT SST/SDT do not track busts at all.

If you look a Lonestar's MCIC you can see that it can read MCIC data that is stored in a variety of different places.

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Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:13 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Thanks guys. I have explored all the files you mentioned and read in a couple of them already. The mombot .neg file is a little strange. I ran across LS's MCIC script while searching earlier posts on the subject so I think I will give it a try.
Not really a good way to do this if TWX doesn't do it internally. Would need to adapt existing scripts to check and alter bust status and also give the bot a way to clear busts by hand. Without all that I don't think you really have a reliable solution. One problem is that the sectorParameter feature doesn't have a standard name for bust data, so one person's script would not necessarily read anothers' correctly.
Just thinking out loud, how would it do to have a wrapper for all evil trade types that checked bust status, started a daemon to watch for busts, then kicked off the selected trade script. It would detect the bust and record it. Then you just need a bot command to clear manually when necessary. Could even have it listen for bust announcements over SS and clear those automatically. Keeping these all in a common code base would reduce the problem of the user defined parameter names.
But I suspect that there is not much use generally for these features, which is why they aren't around already.

Deign


Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:51 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Deign wrote:
Thanks guys. I have explored all the files you mentioned and read in a couple of them already. The mombot .neg file is a little strange. I ran across LS's MCIC script while searching earlier posts on the subject so I think I will give it a try.
Not really a good way to do this if TWX doesn't do it internally. Would need to adapt existing scripts to check and alter bust status and also give the bot a way to clear busts by hand. Without all that I don't think you really have a reliable solution. One problem is that the sectorParameter feature doesn't have a standard name for bust data, so one person's script would not necessarily read anothers' correctly.
Just thinking out loud, how would it do to have a wrapper for all evil trade types that checked bust status, started a daemon to watch for busts, then kicked off the selected trade script. It would detect the bust and record it. Then you just need a bot command to clear manually when necessary. Could even have it listen for bust announcements over SS and clear those automatically. Keeping these all in a common code base would reduce the problem of the user defined parameter names.
But I suspect that there is not much use generally for these features, which is why they aren't around already.

Deign


You've touched on a definite problem that is not limited to bust data or MCIC, and that is that there are many things that are not tracked internally by TWX or the bot, and the outcome is essentially a free-for-all. Each script writes its data to a different file in a different format. Fighter lists are the best example of this; many scripts actually ask you which fighter file you want to use - ck, mombot, something else? The same is true of the other data types you mentioned.

These should all be managed by either twx itself or the bot. I am working, with Micro, on a twx port to C# that will make it easier to add things to twx (working in Delphi is a limiting factor right now) but work and life are making that a slow process. In the interim, maybe adding some of these things to mombot's native data capture makes sense?

I would submit that the right way to track bust data is in the sector parameters, with a parameter for each sector indicating the last busted date. All scripts that rob or steal would then pull that parameter for each sector to know whether or not you are busted there. The smart scripts would also avoid going to such sectors to avoid unnecessary jumps.

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Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:20 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Deign wrote:
But I suspect that there is not much use generally for these features, which is why they aren't around already.

KBot has a bust tracker. These types of things were available, they just were not shared publicly.

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Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:47 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
So, one more mombot script under my belt. This one reads sector parameters, all or by name. It seems that something has created and updated a sector parameter in all my sectors called FIGSEC. I guess I have been loading and reading the .fig file needlessly all this time. I am going to add the setParms function and that will complete the set. Not that I am all that hip to loading up the database with all kinds of crap, but it does seem like a useful tool to be able to read what's in there. Would also be very easy to use these to update bust records over the bot should one have a use for that.

ex:
Citadel command (?=help)

Sub-space radio (39741): [<ENTER> for multiple lines]

'dgn getparms all r

Message sent on sub-space channel 39741.

Citadel command (?=help)

Sub-space radio (39741): [<ENTER> for multiple lines]

'

Comm-link open on sub-space band 39741

Type sub-space message [<ENTER> to send line. Blank line to end transmission]
S: {dgn} Sector 3097 Parameter List:
S: 1 FIGSEC 0
S:

Sub-space comm-link terminated

Citadel command (?=help)

Deign


Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:34 pm
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Deign wrote:
So, one more mombot script under my belt. This one reads sector parameters, all or by name. It seems that something has created and updated a sector parameter in all my sectors called FIGSEC. I guess I have been loading and reading the .fig file needlessly all this time.


FIGSEC is a sector parameter in your database that is set when you display a sector. This is controlled by twx, completely separate from the bot or any other mechanism.

The reason that you still need to manually run >figs to get an accurate list is that FIGSEC is only aware of what you "see" directly - meaning if a teammate of yours figs a sector with a corp fig, it is a figged sector for you but your twx database would never be updated because it didn't see that happen.

FIGSEC is also (mostly) updated when figs are hit and removed (based on what you see in tradewars messages - eg "Shadow destroyed 1 of your fighters in sector 9999"). However, this also won't get updated if you have cn7 turned on (temporarily or otherwise) or if you happen to be running a script that has suppressed the output from twx.

So, the only way to get a fully accurate list of figged sectors is to run >figs from mombot (or just "G" from the command prompt). The figs command just parses the output of the G command, updating both your data file and your bot's internal database (FIGSEC).

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Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:57 pm
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Shadow wrote:
Deign wrote:
So, one more mombot script under my belt. This one reads sector parameters, all or by name. It seems that something has created and updated a sector parameter in all my sectors called FIGSEC. I guess I have been loading and reading the .fig file needlessly all this time.


The reason that you still need to manually run >figs to get an accurate list is that FIGSEC is only aware of what you "see" directly - meaning if a teammate of yours figs a sector with a corp fig, it is a figged sector for you but your twx database would never be updated because it didn't see that happen.

FIGSEC is also (mostly) updated when figs are hit and removed (based on what you see in tradewars messages - eg "Shadow destroyed 1 of your fighters in sector 9999").


I should note that there have been several efforts over the years, some in published scripts but many in private unpublished corp scripts, to share information among corpies in order to ensure everyone has a reasonably accurate FIGSEC database at all times.

The logic of such a script would typically go:
grid a fig manually - report to other corpies so they know
remove a fig manually (less common) - report to other corpies
monitor for notices from corpies and update database accordingly

This may or may not match the logic I may or may not have used in such a script :)

This concept works very well, though there are always potential glitches, thanks to inherent issues in TW connections.

The removal of a fig - by a player or alien - is generally caught correctly by twx and does not require custom scripting. The "blind spot", if you will, is for figs that are added or removed by someone else on your corp. Not knowing this is a big deal - say you are running adjacent foton and want to fire at someone who hits one of your figs, and a corpie is running passive gridder. Normally, you would have no idea of adjacents to use for a foton attempt unless you were running figs constantly while your corpie gridded. This can be solved with a script that shares that data with your corpies.

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Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:04 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Very good break down of the parameter and scripts to do these things.
All of the features and uses are listed in _vid_fighits.cts
help file.

Back in the old days , the 3 main perma corps talked over which
names to use for most of the parameters.

Then this script was born and later Archie wrote a SPTOOL.
Found in the ZedBot , but can be used as a stand alone script.

I use a script that is called Parlist (botable also) to show current sector
parameters or with a sector number .. to show what has been written
under that sector.

The SPTOOL will allow you to make,edit or add parameters.
Very useful.

Vid

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Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:48 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Shadow wrote:
FIGSEC is a sector parameter in your database that is set when you display a sector. This is controlled by twx, completely separate from the bot or any other mechanism.


There appears to be a part of the internal sector data structure devoted to figs in TWX:

SECTOR.FIGS.OWNER[sector]
SECTOR.FIGS.TYPE
SECTOR.FIGS.QUANTITY[sector]

Actually, I never trusted this because I don't know if TWX has a logic relating "owners" to "me" the way Swath does. But this is the value that I would expect TWX to be updating internally as it parses the game data stream. On the other hand, the Figs script just takes the output from the G command and so I knew it recorded all figs that i can use or control.

I can't say what TWX does directly with regards to this parameter, but it is definitely a member of the Sector Parameter set and not part of the otherwise internal Sector data structure of TWX. And a quick call to grep shows a number of calls made by the bot routines to read and update this parameter so I had my doubts that TWX was actually maintaining this value internally:

AlienHunt.000.ts:6
Boton.002.ts:1
Buy.004.ts:4
Figs.002.ts:4
FillShips.000.ts:2
Finder.000.ts:3
Foton.006.ts:7
GridCheck.002.ts:5
GridClear.000.ts:3
LDrop.002.ts:3
LimpShovel.000.ts:6
Merch.007.ts:2
MineSweep.013.ts:5
MowFuel.000.ts:1
PATP.008.ts:1
PDrop.003.ts:9
PSST.005.ts:2
RunAway.000.ts:5
Salesman.006.ts:2
StripShips.000.ts:2
UGrid.005.ts:10
WRob.009.ts:5
WSST.013.ts:1
Wsst.014.ts:1
moveship.002.ts:2
planets.000.ts:1
ship.000.ts:2


Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:54 am
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Unread post Re: TWX - mombot MCIC and bust data
Vid Kid wrote:
I use a script that is called Parlist (botable also) to show current sector
parameters or with a sector number .. to show what has been written
under that sector.

The SPTOOL will allow you to make,edit or add parameters.
Vid


I suspected someone had already done what I was doing at least once before, but I don't think either of these came in my version of mombot. Either way, it was pretty educational to go through the process. My little tool also revealed some other ways different scripts use the Sector Parameter feature to store persistent values in the TWX database. Some were kind of inventive.


Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:02 am
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