Well yeah, but in this case, the client is not provided, you just connect via telnet. And like you said, it is not 100% effective.

But let me reiterate Checkin_it_out's point: scripting is good. we want scripting! What we don't want is that an elite cast of ninja-script-programmer win all the game with their superior ultra private scripts.

Let me explain my server side idea a little further.

[TWGS] --- [Server Side Scripting] --- { DA INTERWEB } < Telnet clients

Now imagine SSS (server side scripting) being a kind of TWX-Mombot combo being available to everyone who connect. That would mean that everyone would have access to the same scripts. "equal scripting game" achieved.

To prevent people from using their own script via telnet client, SSS would impose delays to rapid successive command thus rendering any client side script far less responsive/potent.

TWGS v2.x has implimented a delay system, but it doesn't seem to be effective.

Well, that all depend what is delayed and how long it is I guess.

But using TWGS slow downs everyone anyway, thats not what I am suggesting here. SSS would only slow down external script, while script launched from within SSS would still run at full speed.

Alas, I am fully aware such a system will be triky and time consuming to get right. One would have to rewrite how TWX work and work with JP for TWGS interaction.

Still, having all the automation happen on the server side and available to everyone would be the first step toward "scripting equity" imho.

If that were what you wanted to do, is there anything particularly wrong with implementing PPT, Colo'ing, and a few other repetative tasks into TW itself as an internal command?

~ brings up the automation menu
<f> flip product (port/sell/buy/haggle x1)
<p> ppt with adjacent sector
<c> colonize planet

But none of this solves the much deeper problem of unsportsmanlike play. It's a much more complicated issue than just scripts or no scripts. There are things that can be done but there are limitations. Most of the afk attack scripts I've encountered I haven't had a problem at least evading--if not defeating. The question is, how bad do I want to? It can be so inhibitive as to just make the game unplayable, or unplayable enough, that I'm not interested in that universe. For as long as there are human beings want to win above all else, they are going to bend and even break the rules when the ref isn't looking. In a sport like TradeWars, I think these individuals are likely to eventually find themselves playing in a universe of 1.

But then again, they'll still be at the tournaments.... <sigh> haha

Wow, I really thought I would get flamed for my post!!

The discussion surrounding it, is kind of shocking

To quote rem0te: "What we don't want is that an elite cast of ninja-script-programmers win all the games with their superior ultra private scripts."

Honestly? That really is a good summary of what I am/was thinking. I don't know anything about the guys who have posted after me (I.e. their level of game skill, elite, etc) but if they are NOT elite, I would be interested in hearing some feedback from the Elites. The thing is I want to play against the elite players. I have no desire to beat up on a bunch of noobs (which I prolly am now myself!! haha)

But I wonder if they would be interested in playing a game of that nature.......

To me, if you take away the advantages of the "special scripts" you return the game to its origin, which is being strategic and creative. NOT to say that you don't have to be both of those things to even think of these scripts in the first place, just to say that it would be super fun to have that be the deciding factor, instead of built in script advantages....

Thoughts?

It's not always super scripts that will beat you, but the knowledge of the player to use the correct script when the situation calls for it.

Examples:
If you use an adjacent torp script to stop a surround gridder, you'll never stop him.
If you use a surround torp script to stop a planet gridder, you'll never stop him.
If you use any torp script to stop a 2 ship planet gridder, you'll never stop him. (This takes multiple actions to stop)

Scripting equity? And if you had server side scripts only, do you thing any of the scripts in use today would have been created? If you want to play a game-in-a-box then there are a lot of those types of games available. Why "dumb down" the game by limiting creativity?

The new modes should create games where you do not have to cope with someone who thinks out of the box.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

And what "we" want is players that are not so lazy that they expect script writers to give them everything on a platter. Why do "we" keep scripts private, because we put the effort into creating it - sometimes weeks in the process of writing/testing/rewriting. Players that are too lazy to learn how to write and are just script kiddies can use the scripts we deem public, or do as we have done and learn how to write scripts.

If players want a game-in-a-box where all scripts/actions are the same for everyone, there are plenty of games out that are like that. My last game-in-a-box kept my attention for maybe 30-60 days before it became boring.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

What's a box?

You were playing Farm ville weren't you...heh

lol, secret is out...

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

The game should not be the battle field for allowing or not allowing scripts. I would prefer a good running server. Having a bunch of overhead trying to manage scripts would in my oppinion be a heavy cost to a good running twgs server. Let the sysops rule out scripts. Not the game.

When i say a "good running server". I mean a twgs server program that runs well and is effecient in "dealing" out the game.

If the sysop doesnt want scripts. So be it.
If the sysop wants the scripts. So be it.

I believe this is a dead point.

Wow~~

Awesome. This is just the kind of response I had hoped to not get, but I am not at all surprised that I got it.

People wonder whats wrong with TW. Where are all the players, how do we get new people to join, should we have scripts or not, etc.

Then we get a response from an Elite (Sing I assume is Elite) that is not only an excellent example of the problem but also an Elite-ist statement.

"Players that are too lazy to learn how to write and are just script kiddies can use the scripts we deem public, or do as we have done and learn how to write scripts."

Really? So tradewars is now a game that only a computer programmer can play and compete in? Ok. fine. Whats that I hear? Taps? The game is dead and wont come back. Good work. Way to be productive. Nice solution.

I find it hard to believe (and i might be wrong) that the guys in my day, were all script writers. Did Prestone write scripts? Didiskalos? Dr. Who? Bob? Intrepid? The list goes on. Maybe they did, maybe they didnt. But to have the attitude that if you dont, then we get what YOU give us, is just plain wrong. Why dont you spit on us while your at it.

I mean really. If I were to play X-box online, and I kept getting the Kansas City Royals, and you kept getting the New York Yankees....how long would I play? For you non baseball peeps, we can say I get the Cleveland Browns, and you get the Patriots, I get Leon Spinks and you get Mike Tyson.....I get a knife you get a gun.....

Its just not equitable. I realize that writing scripts is a lot of work. I realize you do it to win. But at some point we have to look at the bigger picture. If I can never win, then the game has problems. I would like them fixed....apparently some people do not.

Why cant you beat me based on your strategy? Your base building and location, knowing what scripts to run, your time at keys, etc....why make it so i have virtually no chance right off the bat?

I dont want a game in a box. I want a game where the tools are equal and the intelligence and strategy decides the outcome....

Well said, the whole thing!

I think the best we can do with this game today is to help make it so like-minded people can play together. And I think we're getting much closer to that now.

A pre-set basis for script writters/script kiddies
and a pre-set basis for "at the keys" players

This game (TWGS 3.xx) will almost always need player side scripts to play. Helper type scripts for trading, hauling and colonizing.

The next versoin (TWGS 4.xx) will have all the "tools" needed to play built into the game, and we'll be back to our strategy game we all love.

There is hope, and the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter!

I sure hope so!!

Oh, and apologies to Sing....I meant Prom