Not to restart an argument, but the players that are claiming to have a whole list of bugs on 2.13 are the same ones refusing to play the B.O.T.E. tournament on the new version. So maybe they really don't have a list they could exploit. My guess is they just prefer playing a version that they have scripts ready to exploit the known bugs in 1.03. -shrug-

Yeah, you actually posted that this was your ultimate
goal months ago. As I understand it, the retro crowd
really has two problems as I understand it.
1) They felt they told you about the bugs in v1.03 and
that fixing those bugs should have been a higher priority.
2) They feel that each time the hallowed v1.03 version
is altered with an 'option' it introduces numerous bugs
that manifest much later.

I was just wondering if there was a summary that they'd
perhaps posted months ago that listed the v1.03 bugs.
I know, I know, use the search function crosby...

From a player's standpoint, and where you say I am wrong, is that 1.03 is known and v2.xx really isn't yet. It could just be that the main reason the players are wanting v1.03 is just the opposite of what people are thinking. They may be afraid of bugs being used against them, or do not want to spend a lot of time in a game only to see their efforts wiped out by something out of their control. How many companies jumped to Win7 or Vista from XP before knowing the stability of the platform?

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

If you go to the first post in this thread, I quoted 8 of the top bugs in 1.03 recently posted in the Hyperspace forum. I am sure you can find more if you search hard enough, but these were the top ones they wanted fixed. I am very curious if these have been addressed in v2.xx.

One, I posted the revision history from v1.03 to v2. The first thing I did was fix the bugs reported to me, both in TWGS and TW. That was my highest priority. I don't know where this indignation about me not fixing the reported bugs comes from. If they're reported, I've fixed them. I'm begging for them to be reported.

Two, this is a game that's been in development from 1986 to today, with a brief break from 2004 until I picked back up with this work. TW history is littered with people who couldn't or wouldn't take the next step and keep up with the latest version. There are still people playing in hidden BBSs because they won't play anything beyond v2b8. Or v1. Or the HVS game. This is nothing new. And new bugs, that's nothing new. Adapt or die, isn't that the mantra?

This version is far less buggy than any version before it. Prove me wrong. Show me a bug today and I'll have it fixed tomorrow. Why not take advantage of that while you can? Or you can stick with an old version with a load of bugs, some of which I guarantee you only a handful know and guard. It's your choice, of course. I seriously don't get why you'd waste your time playing their game under their terms, but it isn't the first time I've seen this. Maybe it's just time for a new breed of players.

I do enjoy a faster ZTM

Well, if speed is what you want, I will be restoring the faster move delay option. It's not in right now because there are known issues with allowing moves that fast. I need to keep the game running at stable 250 ms or slower moves until it's clear that the game is stable. Then I intend to open that setting back up with a warning that you should run < 250 ms moves at your own risk. On some systems, this won't be a problem, on others it will, it just depends on how fast the system can process the events. If events can't keep up with moves, data corruption can result, at worst, or lost events at best.

In spite of claims to the contrary, the goal of my overhaul hasn't been to slow the game down, only to provide greater control over the pace, allowing it to run both faster and slower than it previously ran, depending on the gameop's choice. With 25 ms moves, v2 runs 10x faster than v1.03. It can run at insane speeds now, though stability does become an issue. Eventually I'll allow gameops more freedom to "overclock" their games. I just need to enforce stability right now as we work out the kinks.

I suppose that could be true, but the key point here is BUGS, not scripts in general. Scripts should not be broken in TWGS v2. If they are, report it and unless it's broken by a necessary bug fix, I'll clean it up and get it working again. TWGS v2 should work with the same scripts that worked in v1.03, with the exception of bugs I've fixed.

My understanding is the same. They wanted to see that list of bugs from 1.03 addressed and fixed as V2. then move on to additions as V3. However we're well beyond that point it seems.

I tried multiple settings when the 25ms setting was available, anything less than 70ms was to uncontrolable. But at times 250ms seems like I am chugging along, maybe it was after I used the faster -shrug- or maybe it is the 250 with a 150 latency that casues the chugging feeling. Glad to hear you might be bringing it back for more testing, I ran numerous scripts against the 70~100ms settings with no issues. Of course I was the only person running in a solo game but I could load some other players/bots and run it for testing when it is available.

I fixed the bugs that were presented to me as I started this cycle of work. If I missed something, let's get it back to the forefront and get it fixed. It was my goal to have all of the major bugs from v1.03 fixed before v2 was released, and work after that would be new features.

When I reach a point where it seems that most people playing TW v3 are not interested in new features, I'll fork the game and continue on with TW v4. I'm not at that point yet. There are a lot of features that players of TW v3 want to have added to this version.

If in fact a certain group of players decide to stick with the older game, that will change the dynamic of development significantly. It would untie my hands a great deal, because I limit myself so much in an effort to appease those players. How nice it would be to not have those limitations.

Would it be wrong to suggest to cross both sides of the floor? Kind of like what Obama has to do to get NOTHING done with this country? For the sake of the argument. You have a rouge band of a select few players that want to dismantle the game. Instead of having the grid lock like the NBA why not come to some solid ground and perhaps discuss what needs to be done. Surely JP you have come far in finding which bugs are which and dealing with them. However, these bugs that some people claim to have or know about wouldn't it be a little easier to discuss it with them. Or I could just not be seeing the point at all and missing everything.

I'd be very happy to discuss any bugs with anyone. For whatever reason (and I suspect it's crass self-interest), some players flat out refuse to report bugs to me. Thankfully, even some of their "friends" see how lame this is, and they give me tips on these well-guarded bugs as they learn about them. That's the best I can do in this case. But even with the help of "insiders", there's no guarantee I'll ever hear about all of the bugs. As long as some players want to keep some bugs for their own personal use and advantage, that's going to be hard to overcome.

Well then let them play with v1.03 and move forward Gosh I think I've been brain washed by Cruncher (JUST KIDDING)

Ok, Big D has provided a list of bugs he says are still in this version from v1.03.




I deleted the ones he listed that have been fixed.

I will follow up on these and verify that they are still issues and get them fixed. If they are worse than before, that should make it easier to reproduce them.

Thanks, Big D.